Working Towards Our Purpose

Welcome to working towards our purpose. A podcast that

offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone

out there that's heard that voice in the back their head asking for something

more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino, and

join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own

purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired, and

hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.

Joining me today is Carolyn Johnson, who is a licensed marriage and

family therapist out of San Diego, California, together with her business

partner, Raya, They have created connected seen and heard, which is a

therapy practice centered around connection, and the human needs belong.

She's also the host of her podcast connecting the collective she's a

mom, and she's also one of my podcasting clients, and we've worked together over the

past few years. Carolyn, thank you so much for being here. I'm excited that you're

here. Thank you, Gino. I am so honored to be here.

Such a such a privilege. So can you tell us a little

bit in your own words, how you would describe yourself and what you do and

and that sort of thing? Yeah. It's funny

if you know, the the first thing that comes to my mind is I am

a mom. I would say as my, you know, as my my journey, my

life journey has evolved. That probably rolls to the top right now

as all consuming and probably one of

the most, if not, the most rewarding experience I have ever had in my

life. And on a purely professional realm, I am

a therapist. I didn't have a background in

psychology. I don't come from, like, a family of

therapists or whatnot, so that was somewhat of, like, a

like, a high end to the right choice that I made at one point in

my life, and that has been an absolutely

exceptional experience. I have probably mentioned

before in in different podcast episodes that when I

sort of began sitting with clients for the first time, I really felt

like, oh, Like, I'm home. I have found my calling.

I have found the thing professionally that most

closely aligns with my being, like, my way of my my

human way of being the way I conceptualize the world. It

just it brings me joy. It is truly a privilege to sit with people in

that space. is challenging. It allows me and

requires me to consistently be growing and evolving,

which I love that's something, you know, staying curious and, like, invested in

life, not stagnant. That's important to me. I have

brothers I'm a sister. I am, you know, a daughter to my parents.

I'm actually get to go home tomorrow, which I'm so excited about

for a little summer vacation with the girls. And, you

know, from, again, from a professional standpoint, Raya and I own

our group practice. Raya and I have worked together for I don't

know, like, 14 years now in a variety of different settings and

created, connected. It was really born out of this, like,

desperate desire to provide opportunity

space, like experiences where people felt

deeply authentically connected to one another. We

watched the transformative power of that happen in treatment

settings year after year after year. and felt like,

why can't we create that in a private practice setting? So the

practice definitely has clinical space. Right? We do individual

couples, family therapy. but we also do

our best. COVID put a little bit of a wrench in it, but do our

best to create in person opportunities for people who might

not otherwise meet one another to connect. So

through workshops, like experiential sort of trainings, things like

that, So to, you know, to bring people together to

really, like, watch and nurture and foster the,

like, the power of authentic connection.

That's that's definitely a lot of things, and I definitely have so many questions for

you about all of it. But I think I wanna start with, like, how you

got into therapy and I know that you had mentioned in one of your

own podcast episodes that you had sort of a sales, corporate ish background.

Like, can you talk to me a little bit about, like, that transition and how

that was like for you? Yeah. So out

of college, I live downtown Chicago. I'm from Chicago originally. I

worked in a sales you know, that was my profession. I was in sales. I

actually worked for a telecom company. So I sold audio,

video, and web conferencing into any

company that did anything, didn't matter. Like, you know, nothing was off

limits. It was just if they had a need. And so I got to learn

so much about so many different types of people and so many

different types of businesses, which at 23 or 24, I

now know, was, like, such a blessing because I got to walk

into and kinda learn the inner workings of how different corporations

worked. And that was a huge company. It became a global

company over the duration that I worked there. So I really saw, you know,

what, like, small corporate to giant corporate looked and

felt like. And it was really challenging. I appreciated

how much I learned because I'm not a techie person, so I was consistently

out of my comfort zone. I left that company, and I actually

moved on to work for a smaller I guess, smaller in comparison to

this giant global company. But it was technically a

publishing company that sort of then expanded They had trade

publications. They hosted trade shows, smaller

workshops and conferences. And so I was I did a variety of different

sales things, both ad space as well as worked on the trade show

and and, like, event side of it. And that I

traveled a lot which will provided me the opportunity. At that point, I was living

out here in San Diego provided me the opportunity to see my family a lot,

but it was it was exhausting. So it was, you know, it was I felt

very blessed, but it was also difficult. And I sort of became disillusioned.

And so I worked for years with my therapist She would

ask me these questions. If money wasn't an issue and time

was of no consequence, what would you do? And

finally, one day, I remember, like, so brave. I just

looked her. I was like, I would do what you do. Mhmm. She's

like, Alright. Let's go. And it took

me some time after that. I had to do prerequisites because I

wasn't a psych undergrad, but

I I realized that the thing I loved

so much about my sales jobs were the relationships

I created with my customers. Right? Like, I would walk in to

see my customers, and we'd end up talking about whatever the

business portion of the conversation was for 5 minutes

and we'd chat about, you know, like, their kids or whoever got married or how

is this going with your husband or so on and so forth. And

That part I loved. I loved so much, and I I think I realized

for the first time that people will characterize you in

certain ways and I had heard before, like, I'm a people person or

I like to be around, you know, a relationship person. But I think

I realized that Yes. That that is a, like, a

characteristic of mine, but it it also is a strength. Right? It's

something that I could turn into a skill and a profession.

to really authentically, genuinely be connected to people. I just

didn't have the skills to help them grow and heal. That's the part I

was missing. And so that's regards school came in.

So was it a, like, quick does it like, when you

finally realized that, were you able to then make a decision and then

go for it, or was there still a lot of, like, fear behind it of,

like, oh, I don't know if I can do that. It's what I want, but

I don't know if I can do that. because that's something that I've personally struggled

with for a while with a lot of things. Totally.

Yeah. I mean, fear is so real. And I think I think my

yes. The short answer is yes. I remember saying that in my

therapist's office, and

The next step that I took which felt minimal risk as

compared to grad school was like, alright. I'll sign up for a prereq.

and just see how that goes. Right? So it was, like, baby

steps. That's sort of how I moved into it. And I would say probably the

largest hurdle for me was Honestly, the

financial piece is, like, I'm gonna go into a tremendous amount of debt

to go to grad school, and I will make significantly

less in this new profession that I'm choosing as compared to where I'm at, and

that felt risky.

And I got a lot of outside feedback. Like,

that's not really very smart. Right? Like, I'm a young person

entering into my career. you have no debt and you're in a

profession that could make you really you know, could, like, could could provide some

financial stability. and you're gonna take this turn. And so I had

to grapple with that a lot and kept coming up against, like,

what's smart, what's acceptable, what's you know, good, quote,

unquote choice versus, like, no. Like, I know in my

heart. I know in my soul that is my path. And it's

going to be, you know, more difficult in certain

ways, but it's also like, it's my quality of

life. I ended up at points just hating going

into work when I worked in the corporate sales side of things. And I with

I I use the word over and

over again, and I hope it doesn't it's not it's because I it is so

appropriate. It is a privilege to do what I

do. like, the space that people allow me, invite

me into in their world that that's

sacred. Right? And I get to see that side of

people and, like, human beings, just our community.

the brave, the courageous, the resilient, the growth minded,

like, part of people all the time. And that's Like,

in that's inspiring, and I wasn't inspired in my

last job. I was just good at it. You know? And that felt good for

a while, but Not forever.

Yeah. So I remember also from one of your podcasts that

you said something about, like, making decisions with your head or your

heart And I remember, like, that kinda striking me because

I feel like I more so often make

decisions with my head because I'm a very logical person. I went to engineering school.

Like, I was -- I was gonna ask you, what is your background? because I

only know you as a, you know, podcast, you know. I know you in this

space. Yeah. I was a mechanical engineer, and I worked for military

defense contractors for about 6 or 7 years.

So very analytical, very, like, matter of fact,

So for me, that transition of getting out of that

mindset and, like, patterned ways of thinking was

very difficult. And I I guess now that I'm looking

at my transition in comparing it to yours, it was also a very slow thing

because it was started on the side. No risk. Still have my paycheck.

Yep. And then kinda built some confidence and then built, like you were saying,

relationships and having people, like, be super appreciative of the thing

that I'm doing. And then feeling that and being, like, oh, this feels

right. I think I need to do more of this. And then eventually,

getting all the way into it, was it similar for you, like, when you maybe

first took that class, was it something that, like, you took the 1st class and

then you felt it? Right? Even though people were saying, like, hey. This is probably

not a good decision logically.

Yeah. I I remember so school has always been hard

for me. Academics, traditional academics are difficult.

I I'm not afraid of hard work. I never have been, so I would

work really hard and get, you know, good grades, but it was

grueling to do that. Whereas, again, comparison,

like, athletics came pretty naturally. I still worked really hard,

but I felt like that was more of a fluid us. Whereas

academics were always such a strain and so clunky. So

going back to grad school felt really daunting because of that past

experience. But when I started taking my prerequisites and psych,

I was so fascinated by the material. And that's when I

was like, oh, so This is an arena that's difficult and you knew you were

gonna have to just muscle through it, but I'm looking forward to

it. And you had said, you know, you

kinda tiptoed and it was risk free. I did this thing on the side but

had my paycheck. I held on to my sales job

throughout my entire first year of grad

school. I worked full time. It my job morphed because I

can no longer travel, but I you know, they were very gracious and sort

of, you know, adjusted my job, you know, in order to

accommodate. But I worked all day during you know, I worked full

time during the day, and then I went to school all night 4 days a

week. So, yeah, I, like, I held on tight

to what felt stable until,

you know, then you, like, almost lose your mind because that's not sustainable and

then finally relinquish that. very, very similar to me.

I was home for the pandemic doing both jobs, like,

never leaving my desk or my apartment at all. And got to the end of

2020, and I was, like, insane. And, like, I can't I can't do both of

these. Like, I have to pick 1. So it was

Interesting in the similarities between that. Yeah. So

I I also wanna maybe transition a little bit into talking about,

like, being your authentic self. And I know it's kind of like a

buzz word nowadays, and maybe it's not the best

use of words, but I think it gets the phone across. For me, like,

I think part of my transition was getting closer to who I

wanted to be. Did you find that similar in in your experience?

And I guess, like I don't know. Talk us talk to us about, like, how

you were able to be more yourself in the work

and through the transition. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm just thinking. I yes.

Like, I I can say definitively. that

I am my authentic being in the therapy

room. Right? Like, I bring my personality

into that space, and I I truly believe it's

what allows me to so deeply connect with my clients.

if I back up, I I think earlier I was saying,

you know, people would describe me as a people person or, you

know, I have I'm not a person who has the a zillion friends,

but I do have really deep close friendships that I've had

since, you know, childhood. So I've always known that I was a

relationship person. But those were

sort of, like, descriptors. Like, I have brown hair. Like, they were just

it was, like, how people characterized me. And I think

I distance myself from those things because it

didn't feel like a

strength or a skill that could then transfer into

professional or career. path if that

makes sense. And so it was like, oh, though those are those are just things,

you know, I'm that I am or that I do, but they're

irrelevant because not career they they're not associated with

a career. And and, again, it took I mean, it took me

6, 7 years in sales to realize

No. Like, that's my superpower. That is where

I feel most genuinely me

Because for me to ask curious questions and be invested in somebody that

happens in a snap. That's that is my most authentic way of being.

I love people. People are fascinating to me. And I can very

quickly move to a space of compassion and empathy. I think

also I have had experiences where that

from my perspective has felt like it's been taken advantage of. Right? Like,

don't mistake kindness for weakness type of thing. You know? And I I do my

own work in setting boundaries and being clear because I want

to treat people well. I on the side of, like, trust. and, you

know, giving people the benefit of the doubt. And so I think for a

while, I I tried to move away from that side of me because it

didn't feel like it was safe to lean into it because I felt like I

was being taken advantage of. And that was, like, more in the corporate

space. And then when I realized I can be all of me, I just

need to add boundaries and be really clear about where I end

and you, whoever you are, start. that's when I could

really begin to, like, settle into that authentic

me and begin to give more time and

attention to these things that I just thought were sort of like silly

descriptors, but are, like, actually my deepest

gift. Mhmm. Yeah. I think it is funny how, like, you

don't recognize your own strength to something

that's like important or or valuable. It's

like, I think like, you it's just something that you don't even really think about

until enough people kinda say it to you, and then you're like, Maybe I

am good at this particular thing. Maybe that's what helps me in this

particular job or a particular task. For me, it's been something

that I've been noticing more and more. but only ever since I've

quit and, like, started working on my own that I've noticed, like, things that

maybe I am good at and -- Yeah. -- giving yourself credit for things and

And also just because you were saying before, like, you're pretty linear or logical,

I think inviting that more creative abstract thought

process because On paper, x isn't necessarily

relatable or transferable. But if you live in a more abstract

creative world, x can turn into,

right, the, like, the most transferable skill in whatever profession.

So just allowing that, yeah, like, broader thinking,

which is sometimes really hard, you know, depending on how you grew up

or how you're hardwired or the environment you system. But, yeah,

I think that piece too is, like, hey. Wait. Let's think bigger than

this. Right? Like, let's let's open up perception a little bit.

Mhmm. Yeah. Totally. So I do do wanna talk a little bit more about, like,

your business and and how it got started. And I think maybe the biggest question

I have for you is I know that you've started it with a partner, and

you said you've worked with Rhea for a while now. What is it

like to work with somebody and to trust somebody

in something as, I guess, important as your livelihood in the way

that, you know, you make money. Has it been easy

or Or difficult. And, like, how did that relationship start into

a business? Yeah. All of those

things. I I So back to your question about head

or heart. I'm a heart person. I when something

feels right, I lean into it. I

I could absolutely employ some of my head more often. You know,

like, I don't think things through very well. Like, that's not my natural way of

being. I'm not a planner. I'm not very strategic. Yeah. That feels great. Let's

do that thing. And that's how Rhea is too. So she and I

are similar in the risk that we're willing to take. We are similar

and that we're feelers. Right? And so we can move forward with something

that just like, yeah. That, like, feels like it fits us.

It is such a blessing. We have very complementary strengths.

And so from the organizational side, the system

side of things. Guy can go out, do podcast, network,

meet people, do all day long. I love doing that stuff. It's

energizing to me. I genuinely appreciate those

opportunities. Reya gets to keep the books and make sure payroll is

tight, and she's our HR person, and she's so good at that. And she

genuinely enjoys making sure that, like, the business side of the

business is running well. I could never do what she does and

she could never do what I do. And so that's, like, such a gift

Right? There's definitely challenges as we have

grown. I mean, in being business partners, there's been monumental

life changes, marriages, babies,

different houses, locations, things like that. And so

we have learned to dance with one another when one person has

to dip out because of a life experience. The other picks up the

slack and vice versa. And I think that, for the most part, we do that

really fluidly. but that's, you know, that's been a

learning curve for sure. And in terms of trusting

her, I just did from the beginning. Rhea is

so she's loyal, like, fiercely loyal.

She's transparent. She's direct. There's no bullshit. Like, I know what

I'm gonna get from her. She doesn't play games. She is what she is.

Right? And that allowed me to lean in very quickly.

You know? And I I don't know how she would describe me, but she and

I have had the conversation, a person that you know, Alyssa,

former colleague of ours, had asked us in one of our pod test series.

How did you know you would be good business partners? And Ray and I both

answered. We didn't know because we didn't even know what it meant to

be business partners. We just knew that we could trust one another

in whatever we were going to come up against and, like, work through it

compassionately, honestly, with the mission.

And both of us are incredibly hard workers and have

not only a, like, a fierce passion for this industry,

but a commitment to working because it provides for our

family. So it's not sort of like a, you know, a a side

thing. It's it's something that we're passionate about on, like, a,

you know, a mission and a purpose level, but also a it provides for

the people that we love the most. And so that's a strong driver for us

as well. So the relationship definitely came

1st, and then it was kinda it just -- Oh, yeah. -- came out

naturally kinda to start the business. We would sit. We were working at a

previous treatment center, and we would sit on our break on this couch. We would

eat our lunch, and we would draw and write all

the things. Like, okay. What's this just like right? It's like this was create a

process of our vision and our mission. We still have it in our

practice. It's in the breakroom. The first logo we drew.

You know? Like, we I'm chills. Like, we would just brainstorm and it would

be this invigorating process when things felt really

tough. about, like, what we would create. That was a slow burn

too. We would we would just, like, have these creative rainstorms about our

name and our logo and the vibe and the energy, and it

took us a long time to get there. But, you know, now now we've been

here for, I think, almost 8 years.

Yeah. That's crazy. It is crazy. And it's interesting too because I I think I

just noticed a connection about, like, the excitement that you had about it, and then

that being able to get you through the difficult part similarly to when you went

to grad school. And you were -- Yes. -- excited about it. And then that

was, like, drove you even though it's difficult and hard to figure out. Just being

excited about it is something that I think isn't really valued a

lot or can't really tangibly be valued sometimes. But I'm

noticing is, like, the biggest thing for me to be able to even get

anything done. It's just -- Yeah. -- am I excited to do it? Like, do

I want to be doing it? Yes. I'm working with a business coach

presently, which I've never done before, and it's been, like, such a

cool experience. We're really in this growth

process at connected. And so that's been it's been neat

to bring in another voice and another perspective and a

professional, you know, an expert in it. But one of the things early on, I

said to her, she's like, alright. So, like, give me the, you know, sort of

the parts of your business. And as we were talking about

what a reorganization will look like and where the growth where I

see the growth. I consistently kept coming back to

I have to have. They're I I greatly

appreciate really genuinely every aspect of our business.

And there are some things that I am fiercely passionate about that

aren't necessarily, like, you know, from

a purely business side of things, like the moneymaker, quote

unquote, right, which is what a business coach is sort of coaching you on. It's

like, how do you how, you know, how do you sustain your business?

And and I kept saying I have to have passion projects. It like,

I have to have things that I'm really that that invigorate

me. Right? So I'm in a very like, an

amazing spot and that I I genuinely love working with my

clients. I genuinely love supervising. I genuinely love

networking. But then, like, things like introducing the podcast. She's like, what's this

podcast about? I said, it's my baby. It's my passion project. I'm doing it.

I don't know. I don't have training, but I'm having so much fun doing it.

She's like, cool. Roll with it. Right? But having those little

nuggets and they change and evolve over time. Right? And so

I think having the courage to, like, really step into those

because they do. They light up and already bright space, but they, you know,

they just they make it even better. So -- That's that's

awesome. And I'm really curious about, like, how it's been to work with

a business coach and, like, I I don't know. I I've thought

about, like, that for a while, but always been

I clearly have, like, trust issues because I always think, like, the first thought

is, like, well, what if they don't help me? And then, like, they seem some

somewhere wrong or, like, probably just out of fear, those those

thoughts are coming. But -- Yeah. -- how is it to, like, work with somebody

and kinda I mean, you're trusting them with your your business and your

growth and your future, how was it like to choose a business

coach? Yeah. A lot. like, everything in my life,

apparently, Jean, I'm realizing it was a long process.

I talked to a lot of colleagues, and I got several names.

I interviewed several several

3. I I researched several. I talked to 3 different

business coaches. And, you know, as as it turns out, I ended up picking the

first person that I talked to. And, originally, I was like,

wow. She's bold. She's direct, but, like,

I'm uncomfortable a little bit by some of the questions that she's asking because it's

like you're looking under the hood already. we don't even know each other. What? But

I'm like, that's but I kept coming back to that. It's

like, maybe that's the nudge I need. You know? I I

got to see her yesterday. I walked in. I'm like, so

happy I'm here. I love working with

her. I love having, you know, again, just like

a new perspective. She you know, I asked her. I said, do people feel like

they come for a therapy session? And she's like, yeah. But I'm really relational.

So I picked somebody who's very much about

developing a relationship because for me, trust is huge. Right?

And I don't want just like a black and white here are the numbers. Here's

your homework. Come back with it done. Right? Like, I feel like she's invested

in me, and that means everything. and I'm equal parts invested

in her and our work together. So but, yeah,

like, when you start bringing in you know, because you start with, like, budget and

finances. And it's like, you wanna see what? Right?

And, like, is that allowed? Can I show you that? You know, it's it's it

was an interesting process, and Yeah. Again and it took

me a long time to pull the trigger. Ray and I talked about it for

a long time. Do you know, this is how long I'll totally honest

with you right now. So in 2021,

like November 2021, we did this big

goal setting retreat and I had put on my goals

for q42022 to have

found a business coach. And it took

me until, I don't know, this summer, I started working with her

a couple months ago. So, yeah, it took yeah,

a year and a half to to really, like, move through that.

But we're here. I'm doing it, and I'm so happy. I am.

It's it's been amazing. That's awesome. I'm glad you found

somebody that you can, you know, really get some help from and excited

to see what they bring to your business, for sure. Me too.

So I do also wanna talk about the word connection

because I know it's such a very big theme in, like,

everything that you do in your podcast and your business. Can you maybe,

I don't know, just, like, talk about what connection means to you why it's

important. And because for me, personally, I think it's something that I'm

only recently finding out is super important. I think

for the longest time, I was a loner and, like,

almost, like, proud of the fact that I could, like, never be bored by myself

and, like, always just learning something new or you know, figuring something out.

But now I'm realizing, like, oh, it's much more,

I don't know, impactful when you do something with somebody versus just by

yourself. So can you talk to me about, like, why connection is important to

you? Yes. It's everything. It's like the secret

sauce in life.

I I have described myself as a people person or a

relational person It is always how I've operated.

It is how, again, like, I feel when I'm in

connection with other people, it feels like there's a deeper purpose a

greater level of satisfaction for me. And,

right, if we struggle with trust, that's greatly impacted our ability

to, you know, deeply authenticate -- basically connect with other people.

I remember literally, do you know I remember? I remember what

I was wearing. I remember what the room looked like when I was sitting in

Grad school. It was a night class, obviously. And I learned

about attachment theory, which is how I practice. It's how Raya

practice is. It's the foundation of our

practice. It is how, you know, every person who comes on as

an employee practices from at least like an

you know, that at least has a, like, a strong connection to attachment

theory. But when I learned and I I I won't

go into, like, you know, the deep details, but attachment theory

states that in order to survive

as a human being, when we're young, when we're infants,

we have to be connected to another human being. Our literal

survival depends on human connection. And so

when you study how human beings operate in the world, we talk

about connection as if it is a choice.

And I think as an adult, we bring our head into the equation,

and it feels like it's a choice. And we do have

impact on that, and we do have influence over who we connect

with and how we connect with. And on the most primal

level connection is a survival instinct. It

is how we are, like, neurologically hardwired is to

connect to other people. It is what drives us. And so if

you if you, like, can accept that as a foundation of our

being and then embrace the richness and the

beauty of human connection with risk. Right? Because The more connected

we are, the more vulnerable we are to

rejection, let down, disappointment, abandonment, all those

things. Right? heartache, all of that. But it

also opens up just the opportunity for

Like you said, like, there's a deeper level your experience reaches

a deeper level when you share it with another person. It's like watching a movie

and you both look over and you're like, oh my god. Right? And, like, the

funny just became funnier. Or the scary, not so scary when

there's a hand to grab, you know, those are just silly examples, but, like,

again, connection is is a survival instinct. But if we can

bring it out of the primal and allow it to just

be, like, this agent to create purpose and

meaning in life. It's yeah. It allows us to

step into our vulnerability like, with support,

and I don't know. It's I could go on and on. But --

Yeah. No. I I love talking about it because it's relatively something

that's new to me within the past, I don't know, 5 or so years. But

I was just thinking as you were talking now, I wonder maybe you

have an answer for this. What's the relationship between vulnerability and connection? Are they,

like, inversely proportional? Are they the same thing? Or

No. So I'm doubling up the same thing. Right? So

in order I'm just thinking out loud right now. In order to be

deeply connected, we have to be willing to be vulnerable.

Right? Because to create an authentic

connection We have to show parts of ourselves

that we might feel like are undesirable or unappealing or unattractive or even

shameful right, which is the essence of vulnerability.

You know? Because, like, a surface level connection is

just that. It's like, I haven't shown you my soul. I haven't offered you my

heart because that requires vulnerability. Whereas that

deep, like, rich connection

requires the utmost vulnerability. Yeah. No. It's

I mean, I'm sure you talk about this all the time. But for me, thinking

about it in this way, it's It's almost like, it makes

so much sense, but it's not really anything I ever, like, think about in that

way. And it's it reminds me of a conversation that I had with

someone recently, and they just, like, kinda shared this vulnerable story. And I was not

expecting it because I didn't think, like I don't know. We were on that level

or whatever. But then after he shared, I was like, wow. I feel like I

know you better. And, like, I'm more connected to you. And, like, I didn't think

of it in that way, but that's totally what it was. It was because

they were able to be a little bit vulnerable and share something that maybe

was risky or hard to say. It instantly made a

connection stronger, which To me is very interesting, and

I I don't really think about it in that way usually. And

based in my therapeutic experience, I often find

that people think quite the opposite is if I

show you parts of me, you're going to leave.

Right? Like, if if I open up, I'm gonna be too much, too

messy, too this, to that, and therefore, you're going to leave. And so we

withhold parts. which then doesn't allow the depth

of connection to happen and the relationship fizzles anyway.

Wow. Right? Because we feel like this isn't Like, there's

there's more. You won't how many times, like, they won't let me in, or I

just kinda feel like they're distracted or distant or Right? It's really a

protective measure because we think if you see me, you will leave.

You know? But in essence, And this is the other piece is

that vulnerability is sacred. So we offer our vulnerability to

people who are willing to treat it as sacred. It gets

messy when we offer our vulnerability to somebody who's

not going to treat it well. Right? Like, is gonna dismiss it or

mock it or use it against us. And then that's where I

think we'd oftentimes develop this belief that being vulnerable is

bad. as you just experienced, oftentimes vulnerability

allows us to feel closer, more connected,

more attuned with one another. Mhmm. Yeah. I think

weakness is probably the word that comes to mind when you think of I I

guess if I'm going back to, like, my wiring, I think maybe that that's

the word comes up if you share too much or you're too much to somebody,

then you're looked at as, like, week or something, which is not always true like

we're saying, depending on who you who you open up to. So

I also do wanna talk about the word community, and

I I know it kinda ties in with everything that we've been talking about. But

for me, personally, I started networking, like, maybe a

year ago or a little longer a year and a half. And for

me, like, it's had a profound impact on, like, my

own business and just even figuring out who I am and what I wanna be

doing. So for me, community has been, like, a huge part of

my growth even if we're talking not just personal, but,

like, with business too. I know that you you guys do things,

community events, and stuff like that. What is community mean to you?

How do you how do you how do you participate in community, I guess?

Yes. I'm drawn to community.

I think that if if I'm if I'm thinking about it,

my professional network look

similar to my friend network and that I have

a handful of really close trusted

colleagues that are my go to. In fact, I have dinner with one

tonight. She's so lovely. I love her, and we get to have the

opportunity to not only connect professionally, what are you doing? She has a group

practice as well, but also personally. Right? So

very similar to my sales experience. It's like we talk a little business. We talk

a little personal. Right? I think that the the net goes from

there and that I genuinely appreciate learning about what other people

are doing, learning about what's going on in the industry, and that I think keeps

me inspired and growing. Right?

Like, that part is invigorating to me. It's like, ah, I wanna hear about this

pool thing or I wanna go to this talk and learn about this thing. I

wanna hear about the new ways that they're doing x, y, and z.

But I also I think really

specific to the private practice experience, there's this

weird thing that happens in grad school and that at

least for me and I've heard it from other colleagues is,

like, there's this idea put out that you're sort of

against one another. Right? Like, because it's technically

competing businesses. Right? What I do, you know, Bob does or

whatever. And so we wouldn't be collaborative.

And having had the opportunity to work in treatment centers

that Raya and I got a handcraft and create this really

collaborative approach to therapy where one

is simultaneously working with several different practitioners because all of us

have complimentary skill sets and to watch, like, the

growth just emerge out of this individual, that's

when I really was like, wow. We can this is synergistic. We

can be together as a community promoting growth and

healing, we don't have to operate in silos. And I think

that was really transformative. You know? for

for me in the way that connected operates in the community.

I mean, it's one of the reasons we put out a a biweekly

email blast that talks about all the cool events that are happening, podcasts

that people are putting out. Like, we want to promote other people. We have a

trust list of other colleagues on our website because we we

are here to create the best healing experience.

And it doesn't matter if it's through us. It matters that it happens.

If we get to be a part of it because we're the best fit rad.

But it's happening, the healing, the transformation, the growth, that's

what's most important. And Ray and I have always operated from the perspective

that, like, We can stay true to that because that feels authentic and

real for us. The rest will sort of unfold. You know, we'll find

other like minded people, and, you know, we have. you know, to

date, which we feel so lucky if for. Yeah.

That's that's beautiful. I I really like the idea of collaboration over

competition, and I think that You just perfectly painted an example of

why that's, like, such an important thing. And, again, it's one of those things that

maybe is counterintuitive because if you look at, like, I don't

know. Just the numbers are from a head perspective. It's like, well, technically, they are

my competition. If they take this client, then I don't have that client.

But I think that scarcity mindset is the thing that holds

people back. And if when you do collaborate with people together in a

setting, you can do more than you ever even imagined. And and maybe that's the

differences. You can only imagine so much. But when there's two people there

or three people or four people or seven people, it's like Who knows

what you can create? And that that to me is, like, so exciting. And what

we were talking about earlier having that more abstract, like, expansive

creative mindset I love

creating collaborative opportunities. Right? So whether it's with

obvious, you know, connections or with people that, you know,

are not such an obvious pairing. But, yeah, like, doing that the

cool work shops and the community events with with in in spaces

and with people that are just like a unique pairing. And I that

comes from community. Right? finding other like minded people

who are willing to kinda dive in with you. And, yeah, I think it keeps

it fresh and exciting and yeah.

Yeah. Well, I know we're kinda wrapping up towards the end of our times. We'll

have to pick a few questions to ask you out of the whole list and

everything else we've talked about. But I I guess for you, like, what

are you excited about next for your business or personally or, like, what what excites

you for the future? Yes. Gino, you're making

me speak it into the universe. This is such a be so

excited. She's like, girl, you got homework. Get out there.

I I'm gonna I'm gonna say it. We're we are I am, like,

in the process right now, we have a large space, which we envision to

be a group space and haven't yet taken that leap

and I am doing it. We're gonna I'm gonna start announcing on social media

we are gonna begin to do a lot more community engagement,

a lot more group work, and creating the opportunity

for what has always been the vision,

but for this for for connected to be a space for therapy, but

also therapeutic experiences outside of the one on one.

And I would say really specifically because this is the evolution of my

practice. It's kind of moving into, like, the mama and family

realm. to create a space and a an opportunity for

connection for people sort of early on in

their their mothering or parenting experience.

Yeah. And so we're we're starting, like, a a a monthly

group and evening events and and some

really powerful collaboration bringing in, like, some artistic

experiential opportunities, sound healing, things like that.

So if expanding the way that we're gonna work with some of our

community members. That's that's amazing. I

recently was at a fireside chat of somebody who It's

it's like, I'm struggling to even, like, come up with a term, I guess, wellness

center maybe. Uh-huh. because she it's a bit of a therapy practice, but then also,

like, the sound healing and, like, different sorts of maybe alternative

healing or or nontraditional. And it's really, for me, interesting

to see these sorts of healing centers have so many things

like you were saying. So it's not just therapy, but it's also these other things

that can kinda maybe help with integration and and stuff like

that. And to me, that's, like, really exciting, and

it's it's been really exciting talking to you. And if somebody wants to,

like, connect with you or or find you online. Do you

only work in person with people in the San Diego

area or Do you do online therapy and that sort of thing too? Yeah. We

do. As a practice, we offer in person and telehealth, and we

also have coaches who can work anywhere in the United States.

therapists, the client needs to be in California. But now we have

the ability as a practice to support people across the United States.

which is amazing and been such a gift. Our

website is connected to seen heard.com. We're also on

instagram, which is connected dot seen. Heard.

You'll you'll see my face on there. I I do my best to to keep

up with our audience who's been amazing. Yeah. And,

you know, we are here to support and help if if we

can. So, yeah, anything that we can do to support.

Well, I will definitely put all that in the show notes so people don't have

to remember it. And thank you so much for all of the healing

that you're providing to your community, and the voice that you have

and the platforms that you have. And for coming on my podcast and and being

able to share yourself with more people, I I really appreciate it. Thank

you, Gino. It's amazing to get to know you more. As you said,

we got to work together on the editing side of things, but this was just

such a joy. So thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, and

and best of luck with speaking your vision into existence.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

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