Working Towards Our Purpose

Welcome to Working Towards Our Purpose, a podcast that

offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone

out there that's heard that voice in the back of their head asking for something

more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino,

and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own

purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired,

and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.

Joining me today on working towards our purpose is my friend, Phil

Restivo. He's a plumber who owns his own business.

He also has multiple rental properties that he owns and

takes care of. But most of all, he has a thirst for knowledge

and always wanting to learn new things and to push himself

forward. Welcome to the podcast. Why don't we start by, you telling

me a little bit about your background and your schooling and and how you grew

up? Sure. So, yeah,

I went to, middle school,

and it was time to go to high school. And,

you know how in middle school, you have, like, a shop

class? Don't know if you had it, but Yeah. Yeah. I do. Level of

good working. I really enjoy working with my hands.

And when I heard that there's a school you can go to

where half the year, they're doing that kind of stuff, and the other half a

year, they're doing academic stuff. I'm like, oh, this is

like a get out of work free card right here.

So I was kinda like signing up. And at the time, I

because you have to apply to to go to a tech school,

I thought it was, it was better than a public school

because you have to apply to get in. But realistically,

it's not at all. But it did

teach me a trade, which was awesome. So I don't know how to do

academics for half the year, which was also awesome.

But there's there's downfalls and, you know, there's not many

girls in school. So

that was a bit of a downfall after leaving

them. Also coming from growing up in an

area like Longford, and then going into a school in

Meriden was kind of a culture shock for me.

I used to think like, Oh, people that smoke

cigarettes, you're bad. And then I go into

this nursing school and, like, people are doing

drugs in the hallway and stuff. And I just felt so out of place.

And, you know, the 1st year, I was actually considering

going back to, like, leaving the techs and just going to the

public school. But it actually shaped me a lot

because you get to meet these kids that are

outside your comfort zone, and you

realize, you know, they're not bad people. You just had different

circumstances growing up. And

so it it taught me a lot as far as,

like, being grateful and appreciative for

certain things. Like, I remember, you know, making friends

with, you know, somebody. We'd gone to his house

and, you know, they're all pitching in for groceries and

stuff, and they leave their ovens open to keep the house

and stuff. And I and that was, like, crazy to

me. I didn't realize, like, how good I have it before

seeing that my first game. So I'm happy that I

ended up going that route because it puts things into

perspective. So, yeah. Anyways, I went

to trade school. I had no idea what I wanted to do.

The 1st year, you kinda go through each trade for a couple weeks, and then

you have to pick one for the for the next 3 years.

And I kinda just chose plumbing

because a couple of my friends were in it. I thought

Saturn pipes was cool and stuff, but it

really didn't I didn't grow up wanting to be a

plumber or anything. I didn't know what I want. So,

yeah, I, graduated in 2008.

And all my friends I still had a lot of friends

that were in, like, long for public schools and, you

know, they're all going to college. I felt like, geez,

if I don't go to college, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a

nobody like that. I have to get a good job. And this is, you

know, growing up, like, the the passion and everybody drills

into, you know, you gotta go to college to to make a living and

everything. So I felt I

was nervous. Like, how am I gonna go to college when

I I felt like all my friends were smarter than me too because

the academic program at a tech school isn't as

strong as one in a public school. So

I wanted to go to college. I was interested in

auto, like, mechanical engineering or something. But I had

no idea, you know, what to do, like, how to go to

college, how I was gonna pay for it. I didn't really have

anyone to, push me or, like,

walk me through that process. So

needless to say, I never got into anthologies.

I was into cars at the time and, you know,

souping them up, and then and then I I liked art as well. So

I I got the idea, like, hey. Maybe if I

combine these two things, like art and auto,

you know, I could do something. So I ended up going to a

technical college, Lincoln Tech, for 2 years

and got a certificate in

auto body. And their entire commute and we do some

airbrushing and stuff like that. So that was like a a phase of

my life. I went through super into cars.

I rented a space in Durham. I had, I think,

garage that I was doing side work out of and

just working on cars all the time, painting cars

and got into racing, doing all this, like, street

racing, speeding all the time. I got a bunch of tickets. I got my

license suspended. And every plumbing job

I applied to, they turned me down because

they couldn't afford to insure me to drive their vehicles.

So I had no choice. I couldn't get a job.

And so that's what kind of led me down the route. Let me get

into auto body because I actually enjoy working with cars.

And I thought by adding my,

artistic side to it, you know, maybe I could do custom paint jobs or

something like that. 5 years later, you know, I I worked at a bunch

of different bottoms shops and kind of jumped around,

worked my way up. But another thing that I had

thought about was, you know, the highest paid guy in the

shop is making, like, 20, $30

an hour. I didn't like the fact that I'm gonna have a

cap. Like, I'm gonna bust my ass for all these years,

and then that's the most I'm gonna make. I did out the math and it

was like, we're running like 70,000 a year or something.

And, like, growing up, you always think, like, everybody's got

these aspirations. Like, Oh, I wanna make a $100 a year, and that just

seems like a ton of money. And and

then when I felt like I couldn't reach that by standing out of value,

I realized, you know, this isn't me. And

also, like I said, it was very repetitive. I was getting

sinus infections all the time from all the dusty breathing.

It wasn't good for my health. So I

sold all my cars. I used to have about 4 cars at a time,

like cheap cars I would buy and suit up, fix them up. But, yeah, I

sold them off because they kept getting me in trouble, cleaned up my

driving record. And a buddy of mine was actually

going to travel the country and he's giving up his plumbing

job and kind of put a good word into me. So he got him the

job. And, I started off at this company.

I actually took, like, a $4 an hour pay cut

to to go back to plumbing, but I was more focused on, you

know, the long run. I knew it was gonna pay off in the long run.

So even if I took a pay cut, you know, at least I'm

getting experience. I could put my hours from school to work

and and kinda build myself that way. So was that your

internship that you had to then get a job for? Like, how do

apprenticeships work in a trades? Because I was thought they were, like,

unpaid So basically, you just, like, applied for a job, and

then they paid you, but you also got your hours?

Yeah. So there's a lot of rules with the apprenticeship program.

So you can work for

most trades. You get a job with a company in

that trade. And then they have to sign you up for the

apprenticeship program so that hours actually count. And

I think it does it costs them, you know, so much money and they

gotta they gotta fulfill, like, so many requirements. Like, they

have to have so many licensed guys to so many premises.

They gotta give you so many hours a year, stuff like

that. So I worked for this guy

for about a year, and

he actually never signed me up for my apprenticeship.

So I kinda I was upset because

I I wasted a year of my life and none of those hours

counted. And and 10000 hours ends up being

5 years. You've got to work for somebody just to get your

license. And once you get your license, that's when you're making, like,

$25 an hour. So I'm like, I don't

wanna wait 5 years to make $25

an hour. So, you know, it was frustrating. But

after I left that company, I went to

another plumbing company that signed me up right away because I

told them, Listen, I'm not gonna start working until

you sign this paper. And they were, you know, they were a great

company. They signed me up right away. And and they taught me a

lot. I learned a lot from them. And, yeah,

fast forward 4 years after that, I was able

to get my accept my test and got my

license, which for us tradesmen, it's it's

equivalent to, like, a bachelor's degree. You know? Because not only do you

need schooling, but you need on on the job training. And

you can't even, like, some people think that, oh, can you just fudge the

hours? You really can't because it it honestly

takes that many hours to feel comfortable with

with what you're actually doing. And, you know, they they do

say that in any business book you read, you know, they

say, takes 10000 hours to master something.

Right? So it is true when it comes to Trojd's as

well. I finished my apprenticeship with them,

sat with my license. I got my license.

And I worked for them for another year.

And I asked for payers, and they

didn't wanna give me pay rates.

And I I knew that I was it didn't seem like

because I was doing all the work. I I felt like,

why am I making money for these guys when I'm

literally doing everything? Like, I could just do this for myself.

And I basically applied for a bunch of other jobs

and and got another offer for a lot more money.

And I told them, like, Hey, listen, I gotta give them 2 weeks because, you

know, I got a better offer than anyone else. They tried to match it,

and I kind of told them, no, thanks.

Went with this new company. And the new

company was actually slow. They paid me

better, but they didn't have a lot of plumbing work.

So in the downtime, not only did they do

plumbing, but they also did bathroom remodels. So in the

downtime, I was helping these carpenters

redo these bathrooms, and I learned how to tile, I learned how

to hang doors and do trim work and

do sheetrock. So I learned how to fully

remodel things by in just a few short months at

this company. And that was very valuable to me

because at that time, I was

interested in real estate. And, I got on the

forums. I basically I Googled

how to become rich because

I was so sick of, like, people screwing me over on my

hours and then people not wanting to pay me what I was worth.

And then I see, you know, you see all these things on TV and

all these people you look up to and they're driving nice cars and stuff

and they're like it almost feels unattainable.

So I started Googling how to become rich, how to

become rich. Everything I read online kept pointing to real

estate. I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I looked

at, a lot of the most successful people in the

world, and all of them are involved in real estate.

So I'm like, okay. I gotta start learning more about

this. And when I started reading,

everybody was about flipping houses. Like, now it's become like a

new, fad almost where

everybody wants to flip a house, but nobody knows what they're doing. They just watch

these HDTV shows and they just think, oh, this is gonna be fun. I'm

just gonna paint some walls and make a ton of money. But it's

not like that at all, obviously. And I'm I'm sure

people are learning that the hard way. But yeah, I have these

aspirations on flipping the house instead of doing a bunch of

research. And I started rather than waking up every

morning and going on Facebook or something, I was

looking at the MLS every single day, and I

got to know towns inside and out.

If if a house came up for sale, I knew it within the first hour.

And and I knew I got familiar with, you know, what

were good deals and what were bad deals because I just saw what things were

selling for because I was looking at it every single day. But it

took me a long time. Like, I was stuck in this,

like, analysis paralysis where I never

actually took action. I just kept doing all this research

and and at the same time I'm working for this company, I'm learning how to

rehab houses. And I felt like I had

all the know how, but I was still afraid to,

like, pull the trigger on it. And the other thing of that

was, I didn't have a lot of money at the time. You know, I was

making, like, $400 a week. And I was able to

save up $20,000 and

that's all I had to my move. You know, I didn't have a retirement or

any type of stocks or anything like that. I just

had a savings account and checking account, and

I had about $10 each. So I decided

to quit my job and

travel for a few months. Just stayed in

hostels and stayed at friends' houses

and just traveled the the country for

about 3 months. And it cost me

about, like, $4,000. I wasn't sure if I was

gonna come home or not. I just needed a change, really.

And, when I came back, I felt like I

didn't wanna go and work for somebody again because

I felt like I knew how to do everything better

than them. And so I'm like, why am I

doing all this work so they can make money? I could just do this for

myself. And I know who how to start a business.

I I do wanna ask you about that that trip though because I think that

that's maybe a crucial, like, pivoting

moment. Because so it sounds like you were working for these

people making, like, okay money, right, but like doing all the

work and realizing that you're the one doing all the work and not getting paid

for it. And then you basically started researching real estate

and looking up, you know, familiarizing yourself with that whole new

industry and then you just quit your job out of nowhere and, like, what did

you what did you do on those 3 months? Like, was it self exploration? Like,

what what, what inspired that? You were just so burnt out that

you had you had to or Yeah. Actually, I've always

been, like, an open minded person and loved

traveling, always wanted to travel. And, you know, you

see all these people posting on social media. They are traveling.

You said, how are these people doing? I wanna go travel. I wanna travel.

Finally, I had some money saved up in the morning. I've been thinking about it,

but I probably never would have done it until my best

friend actually was moving to California

to to be with his girlfriend because she got a good job out

there. And he didn't have a job at the

time, and he said, hey, I'm driving out there.

It'd be awesome if you can drive with me and we could take our

time, stop wherever we want on the way. And it

sounded like a great thing, but at the same time, I

was I felt like, can't do that. Like, that's a

fantasy. Like, I gotta keep working and doing all

this. And then just one day, I remember

I was at work. It was like snowing. And,

you know, my boss sent me on some job and nothing was

ready for me. I'm all by myself. And

I was. I was just kinda like fed up with it. And I'm like,

I know that I could do better than this. And and

I'm about to miss this opportunity. My friend was leaving the

next day because I procrastinate a lot.

And and like I said, I I never really took action. I

just I studied things and but I would never do

anything about it. And, basically, he

called me up that that day and was like, hey.

I was just seeing, like, you know, I'm leaving tomorrow. Did you wanna

come or not? And it just

kinda it sat there with me. And I was at this

house in the freezing cold and just miserable.

And and at the time, I I went through a recent breakup as

well. I'm like, you know what? I'm done.

So, I left the job early. You know, I was supposed

to work until, like, 4 or 5 o'clock. I Ended up leaving around

2, and I packed up all my stuff,

drove the van back to the shop, left it there. And I

text I sent a text to my boss and I said, hey, thank you for

the opportunity, but I had a little bit of

a revelation. I'm gonna put some time off to travel,

and I'm sorry for any inconvenience I've caused

you. And, basically, I told my parents that night because I was

still living with my parents. And I was like, hey.

I think I'm going to go leave and and travel

for a few months, and I didn't really know if I was coming back.

I was like, you know, I'm open to living somewhere

else and trying something new. And and so,

obviously, they weren't very happy about

that. They were upset. But I packed a backpack that

night and, we said our goodbyes and got in

part with my friend and we just took off. But then throughout that

trip, I guess I thought I guess I thought I was gonna

find myself. You know? I'd find, like, this awesome

place to live. Like, I always thought California would be cool, so so weather's

nice and all this stuff. But then after

spending enough time in in different places, I can start to

realize all the places have their pros and

cons and the grass isn't always going on the other side. It

honestly made me appreciate a lot of the stuff

that I have here, a lot of the connections and friendships. And,

like, knowing the the holes in the wall and stuff like

that, it takes time to, like, establish

that. And it's hard to give that up because it's

comfortable, I guess. But I always like to challenge my

comfort. I'm in the same place for too long. I have to, like, do

something different. So, anyways, yeah, I

traveled and came to that

realization more, okay, like, I had a good

time. There was no place in particular that I really

wanted to move. And, you know, I missed my friends,

and I came back. And, yeah, when I

came back, like I said, I just didn't want to

I didn't wanna work for someone else again because it just didn't

make sense to me. So is that when you started

your own business? You came back and tried to find clients. What

what was that like? Yeah. So, again, I I

went on to Google and I said, I will start my own

business. And and then I started reading about

LLCs and s corps and c corps

and familiarize myself a bit and figure out, okay,

this is the easiest way and the most common way to do this,

and here's the tax benefits for doing it this way

versus that way. So I learned a lot through

self exploration and I basically

filed all the paperwork online for my LLC

myself and figured it out. It really wasn't that difficult.

And, you know, pay a couple $100 in fees and make

a trade name and boom, I had an LLC.

And now it's, okay. Now what? What do I

do now? Do I need to get a van? So

I, reached out to, some of the

guys that I knew at the old company. They're like, hey. We got

this old van sitting at the shop. You should see if you could buy it

off the bus. So I reached out to the boss and asked him if I

could buy it. And he was happy to get rid of it

and sold it to me for, like, $1500. So

because I knew how to work on cars, I fixed it up. And,

you know, I put shelves in it and got it all set up.

And yeah. So then I basically just started

telling everybody I just started reaching out to people and

saying, hey. I could fix this or

if you if you know someone that needs plumbing work. And I started

slowly building a customer base, and then word-of-mouth

just spreads so quickly is at the

time, you know, farmers were hard to come back.

So when you first, like, thought about getting

work, I mean, at least for me, it was like in my

field, I would basically do anything that people would pay me

for. Was that a similar similar for you? Like you would

just kinda do any job that people would pay for? Did you think about, like,

trying to do the thing that you wanted to do or, like, to pigeonhole yourself

into one thing? Or did you experience something similar?

Yeah. In the beginning, I was taking anything and everything that I could get,

really, just to get my name out there and and to just make

some money because I was broke. Right.

So I started, like, I would install

mirrors and doors and doors and doors and light. But

mostly, I tried to do plumbing work, and I kept on I would

introduce myself as a plumber. I wouldn't say, hey.

I'm a carpenter or do everything type

person. So I guess what happened is,

my mentor, which was good friend of

mine's father who owned a plumbing company in

town. I would help him on the side. And he taught

me so much and he was been a mentor to me in other

sense. He would throw me some work on the side.

And, not only that, if I ever asked a question,

you know, I was able to go to him for advice. And that

was huge because in the beginning, you think you know a

lot until all the responsibility falls on you.

And and something comes up, but you got

nobody to ask to, you know, how do I set out this

problem? And I was fortunate enough to to have

this mentor of mine, Helton.

And he, would always have a

way out And, let me borrow tools if I knew

him. And, and yeah, he really dropped me on my feet.

So I have to, I have to definitely

give a shout out to him. Richard Charlie from R&M Funnel. So

he's a great guy. Mhmm. How did you initially get

hooked up with him? Because I hear, like, a lot of people saying that they

had, like, a good mentor that they could rely on and and this and that.

But I guess I've never found myself in a situation where I've,

like, found that sort of passion. Like, do you ask somebody to be your mentor?

Like, how does does that work? Oh, no. I don't think

I've ever had a conversation with them saying, Hey, will

you be my mentor? Just a relationship kind of

unfolded, basically, because one of my best

friends dated his daughter. And, you know, we're all in the

same friend group. And we would hang out a lot. And,

you know, she mentioned to her dad that I went to school for

plumbing and he would need a helper sometimes on some

jobs. So he would reach out to me and ask me if I wanted to

help him on a job. And, you know, I took every opportunity I can

get to make a little bit of side money. And I

really enjoyed working with him because he's,

he's very, very intelligent. And he's also, you

know, a patient person. And I think looking

back on, the work I used to do, and

with my ADD and stuff, I would forget so many things.

And it kind of like, I could see why people

have gotten frustrated with me in the passion, like,

bosses that I've worked for. Because now I deal

with the same thing. And I get frustrated with people that

work for me. But I know what it's like now.

So I envy him because he never, he never got frustrated

with me. And if he did, he was always tactful with

the way he, you know, worded things and it kind

of motivated me to want to try harder. With other purpose,

you know, they'd yell at you and you'd you'd lose your confidence and you'd

lose your momentum and just it

makes you wanna resent them, rebel, and

stuff. For this guy, he really, like, builds you up

and, just makes you wanna try harder.

And I think I needed that because it

pushed me to become a better

person. Yeah. That's awesome. That's really cool that

you, like, found somebody to be able to instill that. Because I totally agree,

like, there's different types of, you know, disciplinary

styles, I guess. But the person that's like patient with

you is the person that you don't wanna disappoint, which then makes

you try harder to not disappoint them. Whereas if you just get yelled at, you're

like, alright, well, you know, I don't care about you anymore. So whatever you're saying

doesn't mean anything. So so that's that sounds like whatever you're saying doesn't mean anything.

Yeah. So so that's that sounds like something that was, like, really

beneficial to you and and your business. So what

did the start and, like, to where you're at now

with your business, like, how you said that you had people working for

you. At what point did you get enough work to have people

to come on? And at what point did you, like, find your

identity as a business? Yeah. So working

in the companies the other plumbing companies when

I was working for them, you know, I made a few close friends

that continued to work for them. But, you

know, I was able to call them up and say, Hey, I

got this really good job. I need a little bit of help

on. And I'd I'd pay them on the side. And then it became

a more regular thing as, you know, once you get in with

a couple contractors or a couple builders and you're giving them continuous

work, and then those people refer you, it just

takes off really quickly. And almost almost

too quickly. I feel like I wasn't prepared

for the amount of workload that I was taking on.

So I felt like I was consistently reaching out to these people to

help me out. And then finally, I'm like, you know, I gotta

hire somebody because this has just gotten too

much. And there was that fear that,

like, you know, what if I get slow and what if I can't

keep on working? But the other thing you gotta keep in

mind is that I never had a advertise. I

never you know, everything's word-of-mouth. So if I do get slow,

that's the time where I can take that time to advertise.

And and that's when I started getting into real estate

as well. So my goal, well, if we get slow, you know, I'll have them

helping out with the houses that I'm living on. I should probably touch up

on that because I I'll stop. Yeah. So at what point did you get

involved in real estate? Like, you got your business going. Right? And and

that's going well. At what point did you first get into real

estate? Yeah. So everything kinda took off for me when

I was 28. So like I said, I I got my

plumbing license when I was 24. And

I stayed at that company for a couple years,

then I jumped to that other company that taught me how to do, bathroom

remodels. And during that whole time, you know, since I was probably

21, I've just been researching

real estate constantly. And like I said, scouring the MLS every

day. And, you know, I was listening to podcasts

to and from work every day, and I just felt like

I was drinking from a fountain of gold. Like, I was just

retaining all the information where normally,

because of my ADD, I don't retain a lot of

information if I'm reading a book or something. But I was so

fixated on this and I found it

fascinating. So it was girdle to to do

all that. But like I said, I didn't make any moves until as soon as

I got back from my trip where I thought I was gonna find myself

and and I felt like I came back and I was kind of in the

same position. I got nothing really changed. But

looking back, a lot changed because when I came back, it's

I knew that I didn't wanna work for somebody. So that

same year, not only did I start my plumbing business,

not only did I travel the country, but I also

took every dollar I had and invested

it into this house that I was gonna flip. So,

yeah, basically, I started doing plumbing work for this

kid who is actually a year younger than me.

And he owns like 11 properties

and He was just crushing and he was a nurse and I was

like, oh my god, I want to be like this kid so I

would ask him a bunch of questions and he also

wholesale properties, and I told him, you know, I I really

wanna get into this, blah blah blah. And and he

told me about hard money. So now, you know, how'd you get the money to

do this? And he said, well, I use hard money.

What's hard money? And for those of you that don't know, you

know, hard money is just, it's a loan you

can get that's all cash. And you don't need

sometimes they require you to put up collateral. But

it's a high interest loan, and it's a short term.

So, basically, it's scary because,

you know, you're paying 12% interest, and you gotta

pay them back within a year. So this kid was

wholesaling the house and he said, hey, I got this property. I just had too

much going on right now. And, you know, are you

interested in buying it? And rather than him take

a wholesaler and fee for it, he said, Why don't you

do some plumbing work on one of my other properties? And we'll call

it even on the fee? So I said, okay. So I bought this

house for a $101,000.

And obviously, I didn't have that. I had $20 to my name.

So in order to get the the hard money loan,

I had to I was fortunate enough to have my

parents cosign for me, and they actually had

to put up their house as collateral on this loan.

So, basically, the, the hard money lender put a

lien against my parents' house until they're paid off.

So, yeah, I had to put $20 down because

they let me borrow 90% of the the cost of

the property, which was 101. And then there's all these

fees and that. And then they also funded the

full rehab cost, which I sort of

knew what I was doing, but I didn't know exactly. But I

walked through the house and kind of made a scope of work. And it's like,

you know, I think it needs about 20 to 25 grand

worth of work. So they were willing to fund me

for a $130 or something. So,

basically, I got the loan. I bought the house.

And I started working there

every single night. And it was

probably the most stressful and

hardest I've ever worked in my life because

I'd work all day doing plumbing. And then I'd

go straight to the house and work all night every single

day for 5 months. And it

got old really fast, you know, because your friends are going

out to the bar and, like, inviting you out. And

I have to tell them, I can't. I can't. So I was afraid

of what's gonna happen if I don't pay this hard money lender back.

I was scared. And I knew I knew if I just put

in the effort on this one, I was looking at this. I didn't

even care if I failed. I just knew this was gonna be such a good

learning experience for me. And there's no way I could

fail. I can't even explain to you. Like, my mindset was just like,

I wasn't gonna let myself go no matter what happened. So

I was there every single night from, say, 5

o'clock to 10 PM. And I,

completely rehabbed the house by myself and

got it done in about 4 months

and got it listed and sold it for

196,000. And I had

about 30 grand, not even 30, I'd

say like 27 grand. And my rehab costs,

when I sold the house, I made about $34 in

profit. And so I got my initial

investment back plus $34. So suddenly, you know, I

got $60 sitting in my bank. And it's like the

most amount of money I've ever had in my life. And I was like, Holy

shit. I gotta keep doing this. This

this but I was also like, this was a really hard work,

though. So how am I gonna do this more

efficiently? After that, I got hooked. And,

every plumbing job that I went to, I would talk to the

customer and be like, hey, do you know anyone looking to

sell a house that needs work? Because, you know, I'm

getting the flipping houses and I'm looking for a fixer upper.

And finally, I happened to came across, an

older couple. She had a leak in her bathroom, and

she was gonna file a insurance claim. And she

was she was actually crying to me while I was there. But she's

like, I have to move to Germany

in in a month, and I gotta sell this house. Now I don't know how

I'm gonna sell it because it needs all this work. And I said,

well, maybe I can buy it. And we

walked around the house. She showed me the house, and the new

did a lot of work. You know, her husband died and

she she was moving in with her daughter in Germany and just

she was kind of stuck. She felt stuck. So

I kind of was offering a solution that

was good for the both of us. So I I asked her, you

know, what do you think the house is worth? I'm, like, walking around,

it needs about a $100,000 worth of work.

And, she said, well, how

about $85? And instantly, I was

like, okay. I'll take it. And

I had no clue how I was gonna fund it or or anything, but I

knew that was a big deal. Because, again,

now I was constantly looking at the market and knew what what things

were worth. My parents saw how

successful I was with the first property that they

were interested in getting involved.

So I said, I said, look, what if you guys loan

me this money and I'll pay you

10% interest rather than pay this hard money?

And they were, like, okay. They were all for

it. And because, you know, you can't put your

money in I mean, you try to put your money into the stock market

and stuff, but, you know, it's averaged, what, 7%

or something. So, you know, to them, there was like a

one win. They knew I was capable of doing. And they

didn't have 85 grand sitting there. They actually had

to take out a HELOC on their

house. So but the HELOC was a really low

interest rate at the time. So I paid

the extra cost of that. And then I gave them

10% when I was finished. But what I learned

on the first house, I should have never there's

2 things I learned. I made $34,

but then I'm I'm looking at

that's because I had to pay the real estate agent.

He made $13 to list my house

and sell it. And I'm like, well,

if I if I cut him out, like, if

I sold the house myself, I would have

made, you know, 47 grand.

That's a lot more money than 34.

So I was, kinda thinking about

that. So I looked in, but what does it take to get my real

estate license? And then it's like, oh,

there's 2 nights a week to take this course for

a couple months at $500 to get this license. That's a no

brainer. Because I'm looking at it like, okay, I'm gonna

spend a couple $1,000 for this license, but

any property I buy instantly pays for itself because I'm

saving all this commission costs. And I knew I was gonna continue

to buy more properties. Plus, I wanted access

to MLS to, like, I was having trouble because I

was trying to find more deals and I was talking to realtors. But

the realtors, like, they weren't as attentive as I

wanted. Like, they weren't pulling comps and they they didn't

set up, like, circles on the MLS that I wanted. I wanted

I wanted to know the ins and outs of the transaction so

that I can cut as many people out as possible.

I'll be the first one there. I could have the best offer.

So that's what I did. I I went to school for the real

estate and got my license in a couple months.

And then I just, like, kicked into

overdrive. And, you know, that year I bought

3 houses. And like I said, I

became obsessed. And this is kind of a

this is kind of a thing with people that have

ABD. We get obsessed over the things and

then then we'll get bored of them. So it's

like we can hyper focus really well

on certain things, or we can we can

be scatter minded and not focus very well on things we're not interested

in. So at this time, it was like, I was just riding

the road. Interest rates were low. I was hyper focused

on real estate. When I got my license, I just

started buying up everything I can. And I

started just shopping around on Craigslist and finding the cheapest

people I could do the work. But then you're on

to like, you know, things don't get done the right way. And

so you kinda have to, like, micromanage people. And, you know,

the whole thing was a learning process. But, yeah,

I, and then at the same time, I'm, you know,

running the plumbing business and I got a guy working from

there. And it was difficult

to balance everything. And it kinda forced me to

learn how to be more organized because I wasn't the

most organized person. But

yeah. I think the first thought that comes to my head is

so you're flipping more and more houses, and you're doing more and more work on

it. To me, it's like you have this business that does plumbing, but it also

does other stuff. How come like, did the thought ever enter your mind of, like,

having your business just rehab these houses and kinda, like,

shift what the business does? Yeah. So that's what I I

still want to be to be honest. Okay. But the

first house that I flipped, I learned a lot on. Not only did I learn,

like, oh, let me cut the realtor out to save on

passion fees. But I read a couple more

books off bigger pockets. I read the the

BRRRR strategy, which is

buy, rehab, rent, refinance,

repeat. And basically, I thought to myself, I should have

never sold that house. I should have re did a cash out refinance

and I would have gotten the same amount I would have had 34 grand back

in my pocket, but I would have kept the house and made

money each month off of it. I'm an idiot. So

the the second house that I bought was a 2 foreman,

and I knew I'm like, when I'm done with this

one, I'm renting it out and I'm refinancing.

So that's what I did. You know, I bought the house for $85

And I put about 65 grand

into it. And then I refinanced it

for 2.96. So I pulled a ton of

equity out of that. And I was able to pay my parents off

close to 10%. And then I

purchased another house in Cheshire, and I was able to

cover all the rehab costs. So rather

than use a lender, a hard money lender on this one, I actually got a

traditional mortgage on this one with a low interest rate, and

I funded the rehab myself. So I was cutting out all

these fees, and and it it was kinda like a

snowball effect at that point. And then, you

know, same thing on this house in Cheshire. I put

about $55 into that house, bought that

house for a 145,000.

And I cashed out, refinanced that

house for 310,000.

So, again, it just kept on putting more and more pocket

money into my pocket. And then then I

bought another and then another, and I just kept going. I

started to slow down because interest rates

started to rise. Right? And I was getting panicky,

like, well, I can't keep refinancing out of

these if the interest rate's gonna be high because then I won't be

cash flowing anything. So I was

kinda like, you know, people were talking like, oh, the interest rate is

gonna go up 3 points over the next year. So I'm like,

I have to buy as as much as possible now. So

rather than buying fixer uppers, I bought 2 of the

houses I bought with turnkey. And

I don't regret doing that. But it may

not have been the smartest decision I've

made. Because had I not,

if I bought 2 more fixer uppers, I could have

pulled a lot more cash off and continued buying more properties.

But because those properties cost a lot more because

they're a term 2, it tied up all my cash.

So now I'm currently sitting at

7 properties. Most of my money is tied

up. And I had enough money within the bank

for, you know, I try to keep, like, 10% for each

property to in case anything goes wrong. But

so I'm not, like, dead broke, but I put these

limits for myself so I don't get into sticky

positions. But right now, I've been a little stagnant

the past year because I don't have that extra cash to to

purchase another property. Does that also have something to do with,

like, the way that the housing market is? And like, I mean, I'm

thinking, like you mentioned before, you not having

as much drive to want to do it, maybe that changing and then

also just the housing market changing itself. Is it something that has

slowed down or not become as feasible? Because I'm I'm imagining people,

for sure. And I think, the

important thing is you need to know when to

pivot and, and change your strategy. So

I, you know, I got in at a good time. And I was

capitalizing, you know, I was buying 3 houses a year

and really grew really quick. But then

but then I came to a fault where I should've,

like, really because I read a lot about it, but I didn't

I didn't actually take action on some of the things that,

okay, like, the the market's changing a bit. Maybe I

should change out my strategy. Maybe I should start looking for

for different things. So like I said, what I did

was I bought those. I was so desperate to buy whatever I

could while there while the interest rates were low. And

rather than wait for a deal to come along, I just ended up buying

these 2 20 properties that tied up a lot of my cash.

The cash flow did well. But unfortunately, I'm

not pulling any money out of them right away. I

could, I could take out, like, HELOCs on our properties and,

and have enough money to do something with. I've just found,

I'm at a point where I'm comfortable again, I

guess. And and also, I've been working really hard.

I kinda just need a break because I'm trying to balance too many

things at once. And I think it's important

to take time to yourself and, you

know, I can't sit. If I'm comfortable for too long, I've

got to sit. I've gotta step out of my comfort zone. So right now, I'm

just trying to enjoy the comfort and relax for a

little bit, you know, take take a little time to myself.

But I'm definitely gonna go hard

again in a few months probably. You know, I got

other things going on, you know, with my fiancee

that moved over here and, you know, we're getting married soon.

I gotta prepare for that. So, you know, once all

that stuff has passed, I'll probably get back into the groove and and

keep planting. So you think that you will get back

into real estate and back into buying more houses? Do you is that

still something that, like, you have to drive for? Yeah. So,

definitely a 100%. But I I kinda wanna

take it to the next level. Like, it's kinda like,

you know, after you do it a few times, it's like, okay, I've been there,

done that. Like, I wanna go bigger. Right? So

I'm looking to get into a commercial property. I'm interested in

getting into like a small apartment building or something like that.

And I've been thinking more and more about

liquidating my whole portfolio into like one

big commercial building. So

that's a thought of mine, but I've also

been hooking up with a lot of different investors as well

and focusing on building relationships with people that

I could then utilize in the future for, for other

deals that come my way. So that's kind of where I'm at at

the moment. Yeah. Because I imagine

having you said 7 properties that you have, like, how do you, how do you

have time to manage all of that plus still the year

business? Like, what is what does it, you know,

a day look like for you? Yeah. Because it sounds like a lot from this

end. Yeah. So it's, it's

not terrible because the thing is, because I'm

rehabbing these properties, everything's brand new.

So I'm not getting a lot of, like,

calls like, oh, this is leaking or this isn't working

because everything's brand new. What's gonna go wrong?

Trust me, stuff still goes wrong. And it is a pain in the ass to

do it. But it kinda puts you ahead of, you know, the

people that buy, like, the rundown properties and they do the bare minimum.

And then they're just getting calls every other day. I knew

I didn't want a business strategy like that. And

and trust me, they're they're still making money. It's just more of a

headache. I wanted something more hands

off. So by putting, you know, new

appliances and having all new fixtures and

stuff, all new plumbing, it kinda eliminates a

lot of those problems that people have in the future.

Another thing that comes to mind as you're talking about, like, you know,

taking it to the next level, getting a commercial space or

something even bigger. What does it feel like in your

mind, like, the first time that you went to buy your house and, like, how

scary it was to get that first loan and now look at yourself and

think I'm gonna go buy this, like, you know, huge thing with

with all my assets or something? Like, do you think about, like, the

difference between how you felt then and how you feel now? Yeah. Definitely.

So another good thing I've learned is

like, take what people say

with a grain of salt because so many

people told me no, that's not

gonna work, or you can't do this. And

they're just wrong because and and I've read this a lot in

books, and I I kinda didn't believe it until I've experienced it

firsthand. You might get 10 people that tell you

no, but then the 11th person says yes.

You know? And that's referring to, like, lenders and stuff. You

feel like you can't find a lender that would do a certain deal

or give you a certain rate. But if you reach out to enough

people, eventually, you're gonna find someone that says yes. It's

the same for looking for deals. Like, you

can start cold calling purpose. And most people are going to slam

the phone in your face. But eventually, someone's gonna pick up and say, yeah. I'll

sell you my house. And it really goes for

for everything I I've dealt with, like dealing with contractors,

telling telling me something can't be done. I

I just learned that also, like, everyone

I always thought, like, these people have all this power and,

like, they're so much smarter than me. And you

start to realize these are just normal people. And,

like, don't be afraid to challenge them. And

now it's like, like, I'm in the process of trying to

assume a mortgage, the property,

right now. And the bank I called,

like, 6 different people at the bank and they all said, no. It can't be

done. It can't be done. But then I read online and on the

forms and stuff where people have done it and say it can be done.

And so I kept on calling people

until I got the answer I wanted. And

finally, someone's like, yeah, here's the paperwork. This is how you do

it. It can be done. And I I couldn't believe

it. Like, it it makes me want to, like,

reprimand all these other people. Like, why are you going around

spreading this false information when when I can

it can passion? It's not a legal or anything

like that. So in a lot of ways, just because people

purpose are lazy. And maybe they're not getting the

passion out of it, so they don't care. They're not gonna take, they're not

gonna go the extra mile to figure it out for you. So

sometimes, you gotta do that leg work for yourself.

Yeah. I well, I think that what that speaks to is basically just, like, not

giving up on something. I mean, that's basically everything

that I'm hearing from you right now is, like, not giving up on something until

eventually it comes through. How do you keep yourself motivated after,

like, being denied so many times? I mean, I'm right now,

stupid example, but, like, I'm dealing with, like, annoying health insurance and

getting frustrated and, like, wanting to just not deal with it

anymore. How do you keep going?

Yeah. You know, that is it is hard

to stay motivated and keep going. I think

what helps me, and this may not work for everyone,

but I continue to listen

to podcasts that they kinda like, they

can't me up, you know, like you listen to someone's story and it's

like, yeah. I wanna go out and buy a house right now and flip

something. And, like, you get amped up about it. But then,

like, if I don't listen to podcasts or if I don't,

like, look at MLS for a while, I start to get stagnant and feel

like, this is never gonna work. But I

think you gotta find what works for you and,

you know, dig deep into yourself and ask you, like, what gets

you excited about this thing in particular?

I mean, I guess with health insurance, it's like, I don't know. Like, what's

gonna get you excited about helping?

Yeah. And that may just be one of those things, like, you just have to

deal with and it's annoying. But but yeah. No. I think that's that's good,

advice for for that. Like for me, it's like I try to find books that

are helpful and they get me excited. And I try to read, like, when I

get up in the morning before I start anything, and I try to

invest at least a little bit of time into reading something. Even if it's just

like 10 pages that I read, it could completely change

my course of my day just because, like, I was inspired or motivated by it.

So, yeah, podcast is definitely, another way to do that. So I think that

that's good advice. Yeah. And and I don't think like,

podcasts aren't for everyone. Right? I I also

learned a teacher once told me that

there's 3 different ways

kids learn. There's, a visual learner,

a kinesthetic learner, and a audible

learner. And I found out and was told

that I'm an an audible learner.

So I retain more information when

I hear it rather than when I see it or when I'm

doing it with my hands. So I I

kind of grasped, grasped onto that and,

said, okay, I'm gonna start listening to audiobooks

rather than reading the audiobooks. I'm gonna start listening to

podcasts. And and the more I'll do

that, I'm noticing that I am retaining a lot more.

And so you wanna just play to your strengths.

And, Yeah. So I do encourage

everyone to, you know, figure out what's the

best way to get them to to learn or to

focus or to retain information and

then use that. Yeah. That's that's

huge. Because I mean, it's just thinking about, like, I don't know

which one I am. I think I'm, like, a do it type of person. Like,

if I'm doing it, that's how I learn the best. But even just to think

like all the past things you tried to learn, if you knew which way you

learned the best, how much time could you save or how better

could you apply that to anything you're learning in the future. So I'm sure there's

a test out there that tells you which one you are. I'm sure you could

Google it and go find it. So that makes me wanna do that after this.

Yeah. And honestly, you know, after I learned that,

I kind of felt like, disappointed with

a lot of my teachers in the past, because I feel like there's a lot

of teachers out there that just, you know, they follow

a rubric. And they, they just hand out worksheets, and

they treat everybody the same, but really, everybody's different. And

you have to cater to each student and understand

their strengths and weaknesses and and understand what's

gonna make them pay attention and retain the

information. And I felt like in school for

me, I struggled with, obviously, the ADB thing.

Had I known this in the past, I think

I I probably would have been a lot smarter than I am now.

So I wish that more teachers would, take

that into account.

Yeah. I I do think that that's a good point. And then I also just

heard myself thinking, like, I'm sure there's tons of people listening

to you right now being, like, you seem way smarter than I do right now

listening to this. So, like, that brings me to, like, the

perception of self and, like, being self critical

and, you know, being hard on yourself and that sort of thing. Like, you

you said that you struggle with ADD and that's something that, like, you're

aware of. But what about, like, other self

limitations? Is that something that you think about?

Yeah. I definitely have a

lot of self limitations. I do a lot of

self exploration, read about a lot about

mental health and stuff like that. It's another thing I'm like

obsessed with, I guess you could say. Basically, you

know, started from recognizing that I had a

problem, because I wasn't diagnosed with a d

d till I was, like, 20. I knew I had her. I knew there

was something wrong with me. Like, I couldn't retain

information or stay focused like everybody else.

And I know a lot of people, not a lot of people

nowadays think they have a and b or they do have it and,

and they struggle to cope with it. And I've learned

some things that work for me that really have

like jump started my way

of thinking this. And, it was

discouraging hearing, like, I had trouble holding

the job, especially when I was doing auto body and stuff.

People would look at, like, they'd ask me a question,

and they would like I'd be thinking it's like they

got racing thoughts. So they'd ask me a question, and I

take a while to respond because I'm not thinking about the

question. I was thinking about something else. And then then I got to

the question in my head, and I responded.

My response time was was delayed. Right? So they're

looking at me like, is this kid stupid? Like,

what's wrong with me? And and then it makes you question

yourself. And I I had

that a lot growing up. It was like

purpose thinking they might not outright

say, like, are you stupid? Which they had done. But

a lot of people would think, like, I'm a pothead or something. And it's

like and I'm asking myself, what is wrong with me?

Why why does it take me a while to respond to people? Why

am I slow with the way I think and

stuff? And be even without solving the math problem,

I'll always get the right answer, but it took me a lot longer

because I went about it a different way in my head than the

average person would, I guess. So that's what got me

into researching, you know, why

am I like this? Again, like, just Google.

This is my problem. Like, why does it take me long to think? Why does

it take me long to respond? How come people think I'm

I'm slow or something? And then I read about

ADD, then I went to a doctor. They diagnosed me. They say

the only thing to treat it is medication, which I didn't wanna

do because I'm I'm kind of a naturalist

and don't like to put on things in my body and stuff like

that. So I just

started researching ways to cope with that. And

I found, I really just figured out my own

way. Like like, when I first went into business, like, I'd

forget to go to a job. Like, I would get calls,

like, where are you? Like, voices. What what are you

talking about? Well, you talked yesterday. You said you were gonna be at my

house today. And I would forget because I wasn't

writing them down right away. So what I started doing

is the second I get a phone call

for for a job, I got into a hap I built these

habits where I have to put it in my phone right away

no matter what I'm doing. I'm driving, I gotta pull over, I gotta put

it in my phone or else it's just gonna it's gonna go

away. So, you know, not only with things like that,

but with everyday things in life. I

write notes. I like something or I think about something or I

I wanna do something, I have to write it down. That's a big thing for

me is writing things down. And writing them down right when you think about it.

Don't say, Oh, I'll write it down in 5 minutes because then it just goes

away. So that's something I do to cope with it.

But, yeah, there's a bunch of different things. There's, like, cognitive

behavioral therapy, which, you know, I've tried

practicing that. I still try to do that.

But any any little thing you could do helps.

But I think it's important to realize because

it it killed my self esteem, like, thinking that there's something

wrong with me and that everyone thinks I'm slow and stuff.

You finally realize, oh, wait, I'm not

slow. Like, I can still figure things out. I just go about it

a different way. Now I have to think about how to do

things that are more to my advantage, I guess.

Like, use my strengths. Right? So as soon as

you find out what your strengths are, it kind of built

my confidence back up. You know, another thing I

have pretty severe sleep apnea and

something I kinda didn't think anything about. But when I

got control of that, that made a huge difference in my life

as well. I've been more alert during the day. I'm not weak,

more focused. So just

constantly trying to better yourself, both physically and mentally, I

think is important. Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely.

We are kinda, you know, getting to the end of our time here. But I

can't not ask you about purpose since that's kinda the name of this

podcast. Give me any thoughts or your opinion on, like,

what purpose is or, like, I know a lot of,

it seems like decisions that you made when you were younger were driven on,

like money and how much you're getting paid and this and that. How how does

all that tie in? Or is it something that you think about? It

is something I think about a lot. Actually,

I always ask myself, like, what is the

purpose of life? Is there a purpose to

life? And I guess everything

is unknown. Right? So I used

to be in the mindset of, like, there is no purpose of life

without these little microorganisms, and eventually, we're

gonna die. And then there was nothing left.

And there's no trying to thought this was no

purpose. And I don't think that's a healthy way to

think, which is why people probably, believe

in religion and stuff because it gives you a hope of of

an afterlife and or a greater being. And I think

that's great. Unfortunately, I feel like I

can't believe in something that I can't see, hear

or feel. So I've tried. I've

tried because I I want to I envy people that believe in

religion. I just, it doesn't work for

me. But I do think, like, going down a

more spiritual path, because everything is

unknown, you can't say that there's no purpose,

but you can't say that there is a purpose. So

it puts me in, like, this gray area where where I can't be

depressed, But I can't be

excited that there's some afterlife. So now if someone

says, I just try not to think about I just try to

be happy in any way I can. And, so

maybe that's my purpose is just to try and

be happy. Are there things that you can

do to, like, to affect your happiness? Like like, like, I guess that's something that

I think about a lot. And, you know, words

also, you know, they're all made up. Right? The word purpose for

me is is helpful and important, but that doesn't

mean that, like, maybe it is for everybody. But I think happiness is

something maybe that is something people are always

chasing or or trying to figure out what makes them happy. Is there

things that you've noticed that do make you happy or don't make you happy?

Just for example, like, the things that are supposed to make you happy have not

made me happy. Right. Right? So then I have to go and then find

those things that actually make me happy versus are

said to make me happy. And I and I think for me, purpose is

finding something that I can do that gives me, like,

a reason to be doing it, which then affects my

happiness. So maybe asking in a different way, like

happiness, like, what what affects your happiness or what have you noticed?

Yeah. So I thought long and hard about that too, like, what has

happened. And I think people

look at, obviously, like, material things,

which I think everyone can agree that that's, like,

temporary happens. So then the other thing is, like,

love. Right? Like like, finding love

should make you happy. But love is also

just a feeling. Right? And a

feeling a deep feeling. Don't get me wrong.

But it's a transmitter in our

brain that makes us that produces dopamine, makes us feel good about

it. But beyond that, I think we're we're constantly

looking for our purpose and and happiness

and stuff. And I don't think you ever, like, find

this one thing I can have this revelation. I think

you have to enjoy the journey. The journey is the

happiness. Just the whole process

is purpose. No. No. I think that that

has a lot of truth for me, like, enjoying

the process and the journey. But I also think that could be something

that is anxiety provoking, is not knowing

where you're gonna go or where the future. So it's like, for me, a fine

balance of like enjoying the moment, but then also

not being worried about the future and being in the present.

So that in and of itself is like a whole another conversation and a whole

balance of things. For sure. It's definitely

anxiety for both of you. But I think if you didn't have

things that gave you anxiety, like,

you wouldn't know like, you wouldn't know what good

is if there wasn't bad. You wouldn't know what

happiness is if there wasn't sadness. So

you have to experience both sides of the spectrum.

And there's never going to be this perfect paradise. It's always going to

be we're always gonna need both to exist,

to, to fear, to be alive. So

Yeah. Definitely. I definitely agree with

that. So we we gotta, you know, come to an end. But I just wanna

ask you, like, what's next for you or or what, what are

you trying to to get into next or, you know, speak that into

existence? Yeah. So I'm learning

the hard way that I don't like

working long hours. I wanna spend

more time doing the things that I enjoy doing. So,

the next thing for me is trying to put systems in place

where my businesses can run themselves. So I

am thinking about doing, like, a a different business

venture, whether it's opening some some little shop

or something, you know, having somebody else

running. Or and and like I said, I'm I'm looking at

getting into a a commercial property and basically

getting more cash flow to to the point where

I don't have to work hands on anymore.

And I could spend you know, I'm not looking to

live this lavish life and and do all these crazy things. I'm

just looking to not have to be a slave for

the dollar and, and just

travel and make connections and

get back. And I think that's what what would make

me feel the best. Yeah. I like

that. Thank you, for sharing all your experiences

and being vulnerable and telling us all about the things that you've

gotten into. I appreciate your time and,

wish you the the best of luck with your future endeavors. Yeah. Thank you.

And same to you. And, we'll have to

flip this all around so people can get to know

your your side because I think, you have a lot of,

your insight, life in general as well.

Oh, thank you. It's it's interesting

seeing, like, I don't know. I I feel like people are always really

hard on themselves, and they don't see all the value in themselves. But that's kinda

like what this podcast is for me is, like, I'm in real time

seeing like all the awesome things that people do

and getting to witness it and, hopefully reflect

some of it back to them, and share it with other people.

Yeah. Thank you for listening to

Working Towards Our Purpose. If you liked today's episode and are interested

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show notes, where I share thoughts, tips, and ideas that I'm

learning along my journey to help inspire you. The show was produced

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