Working Towards Our Purpose

Welcome to Working Towards Our Purpose, a podcast that

offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone

out there that's heard that voice in the back of their head asking for something

more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino,

and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own

purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired,

and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.

Adam Kristofferson is the founder and driving force behind musical

intervention, a place where people can feel welcome and play music

together no matter their background or situation. Adam grew

up seeing firsthand the effects that trauma, drugs, and mental

illness had on the people closest to him. Leading through foster care

and special education, Adam discovered that the transformative

power of music was his anchor and his calling. He has a degree

in recreational therapy, and after receiving a grant through the National

Endowment of the Arts in 2015, Adam began to work with the

homeless population in New Haven, Connecticut. During this work,

he saw the need to have a safe drug and alcohol free space for

the disenfranchised to be creative, productive, and connect with

the broader community. Adam then partnered with Project Storefronts

and opened the doors to the Musical Intervention headquarters in April of

2016 in downtown New Haven. Adam, thank you

for giving us your time here and being on the podcast today. Excited to have

our conversation. Great to be here. And, I'm sitting in that

dream come true. So it's really, really cool. Awesome.

Awesome. Well, I first heard you speak at a TEDx event

in New Haven, and that's first where, like, I got introduced to you and

your story and what you do, and was intrigued since then.

And, you know, in prep this, I've listened to a lot of videos and podcasts

you've been on, and I know that your story is is not maybe the most

succinct. But, can you give us, like, an idea of, like, how you grew up

and, some things that maybe seem pertinent to give us a a little

bit of background about yourself? Absolutely. Yeah.

So music, right, is kind of like the the thread throughout my

entire life. The year I was born in 1983, my

uncle actually had a big hit on the radio,

and that was the beginning of things looking up for

our family, as far as, like, my mother is concerned.

And, you know, going to those concerts were a big deal, and seeing kind of,

like, you know, the power of music and and, you know,

going backstage and and learning all about that. But really

music became rooted in me when my father bought me a drum set

at about 8 years old. And that's really when I discovered kind of the

world of music and and finding a safe place in that, and then a way

to communicate with other people. So I had all these friends coming over and jamming

for hours on end and just having a great time expressing

ourselves. Yeah. And then never really wanted to let that

go. Picked up guitar and, started writing songs, taken

from some of my experiences in poetry and stuff like that. Then kind

of snuck into college, found a degree of recreation therapy, which

was a real just a, a meant to be moment, for

sure. And, started working at the Yale Child Psychiatric Inpatient

Hospital, where I continued to kind of write and record original music with the

kids there, and saw the impact that, you know, music had on

me, was having also on them, and then really was able to start

working in other places and develop this passion

project, kind of community service, all wrapped into

1. And then, you know, from the original conception of

having a space that could be a creative space, so it was called Cafe

Cave when I was 17, to, 8 years ago

in 2015, when I got the keys to open up a

space that is, sober and creative

and quoting studios and music and coffee

and just good company, good vibes all around. And,

yeah. So that's that's a full dream come true kinda

moment. And so I'm kind of living in that. Even just today, we're

jamming around here, and I'm just looking at all of these people working

together, people that wouldn't typically be hanging out, just like

laughing and enjoying themselves and and creating and collaborating

together, and just super grateful to have this life,

really. And it's just, like, it's pretty amazing to to watch it

unfold in front of me. Mhmm. Yeah. That's that

sounds really amazing and definitely gonna get into, you know, different aspects of

that. I guess I'm curious to, like, what drew you to music

initially? Like, what was it about music that made you kinda latch on

and and not wanna give it up? Because it seems like it was a constant

throughout your life. Definitely.

Jeez. Well, I think having a famous relative,

and then being successful in music, as

far as like huge concerts, and

something important was happening there. And, you know, that was

pretty stark in comparison to like living in foster care, or

living like in poverty, really. And

so there was something about music being kind of a savior. And

I had thought for many years that that was my uncle. That's the

savior right there. He's the one who's gonna swoop in and save the day

here. But really, all along, it was it was the music.

And I think those those early experiences

of having full access to getting backstage

and seeing how the whole thing works and even getting a

chance to hop on the drums before everybody got to the concert

hall. Those things were those things were like

paramount. And so the moment when I got the drum set, and I started learning

the instrument, and learning how to be a musician, I'm pretty sure that was,

kind of discover a world that I can exist

in that's mine. And no matter what was going on in

my reality, music really

gave me a safe place that I felt

important, I felt heard and understood.

So, yeah, I think those 2 key components, having

really close experiences to large concerts,

and also, you know, learning, like learning the actual instrument.

Those those things were pretty foundational

for me. Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely seeing, like, someone

that you know becoming a success, I guess. You know? And and that

being an inspiration to kinda, like, let you know that that's a possibility for

you. I know that they always say that, like, entrepreneurship runs in the

family, and I think that because you can see somebody

who's doing that thing, and then, therefore, it makes it a little bit more accessible

to you because you know that somebody you know has done it. So that that

definitely makes sense to me. But I I guess I also wanted to ask you

about, like, you know, developing an identity, like, as a kid, like, when you

when somebody first is, like, developing their own identity. I think for

me, it's something that I've struggled with for a while because I kinda went down

on a path that wasn't necessarily, like, the thing that I wanted

to do and then kinda hit this point where I was like, who am I?

Right? Like, what am I even doing? What do I want? And I think a

lot of people kinda relate to that. Did music kinda help

you solidify an identity, or or do you have any thoughts on

that? Well, there was a lot. There was a lot going on, you know, in

those formative years, middle school, right, high school, or elementary school,

you're kinda just you are yourself. You don't really have a choice. Right? You're just

kind of being yourself. And then middle school

passion. Right? Certain people in your life start telling you different

things, like, that's cool, that's not cool. And I was trying to desperately

find out how I cannot be alone, because I'm an only child. And so I

was like, yeah, I'll do drugs, and I'll do crazy stuff.

And and and I was really following that. And and and sports were really

big for me. Like, they they did keep me out of a lot of trouble,

and I loved being competitive. Really enjoyed

being competitive. And those were identities that

I still hold pretty tight, as far as wanting to

win and wanting to be great at whatever I'm doing. But, yeah,

I'm pretty sure the big change happened in in the middle

school and into high school, where I got hurt in sports, and I was

really upset with the way I was being treated as far as like you

know, I earned my, like, college litter my freshman year, and I was like super

excited about that. And then it got stripped from me because I got in trouble

in class, because I was a special ed kid, and I was, you know, kind

of bouncing off the walls a little bit. And so I got really frustrated

with that, and then I started getting really creative. And my

grandmother turned me on to poetry when she was raising

me. And she would read poems to me, and it was always really

special. I had really special moments with poetry. And so I took

up poetry before I started writing songs. And I

think there was something about just hopping on a bus,

going to Yale New Haven, sitting under a tree, and

just going into my imagination and

just writing about my feelings, writing about who I think I am,

or who I am in this world, that really helped me

anchor who I am. And so

poetry gave me space to think, And then

music, shortly after with writing songs and playing

guitar and stuff, really became how to

live. You know, who am I, and how am I going to live? And I'm

gonna live with power and passion, and I'm gonna be loud, and I'm

gonna express myself without thinking about how it sounds to

people. And those were like, you know then I just like, within the 1st year

of, like, writing songs and guitar, I was doing, like, open mics at coffee shops

and stuff like that. Right? So at that point, like, hey, I'm a singer songwriter.

Right? And whether or not

this is graduating high school about this time. I put out an album. I

was like, yeah, I'll get in the car, drive across country, just like playing music

everywhere without any idea how the hell I had any

money to do any of this stuff. I think my father just gave me, like,

probably $1,000, and I had to, like, figure out how to get around the country

and back in $1,000 because there was no, you know,

safety nets there. And so it was just magical. And I knew that

I was I had my identity as a musician, as a

songwriter, and I stood for a lot of what I

heard my my uncle sing about, which is love. And I always

sang about that, sang about love and honesty and truth, and

just wanted to be as close to that as I possibly could

with everybody I met. And so that's really the identity

that I still carry with me today. It's the

just be vulnerable, and say what's on my mind,

and do what I wanna do, but ultimately try to help make the

world better in any way, shape, or form that I can.

And that's from cleaning up after myself to building a

place where people can just walk in freely and create together.

So Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Thanks for articulating that.

That's definitely something that I noticed about you. Like, I I saw you speak, but

then we kinda bumped into each other at a networking event. And I did notice

that, like Yeah. The way that you spoke with passion and, like, you you could

feel, you know, your energy coming off you. And, like,

it's definitely something I always try to, you know, go

more towards. I'm not always the best at being a 100% vulnerable and

and that sort of stuff. I'm working on it. But, yeah, that's it's cool for

you to articulate it like that. I I I guess I'm curious as to,

like, you know so that's kinda you at, like, graduating high school,

becoming confident in, like, who you wanna be. What then drove

you to go to college and and get the degree? Did you have

any, like, plans, or did you just wanna do music? Yeah.

I definitely didn't wanna go to school anymore, because being in special education, like, all

I do is get the label, and it's just like it was just a nightmare,

academically speaking. So I was dating a girl,

Abby, and she was great. She introduced me to her mother, who was

a social worker, and she also wrote songs.

And I was just enthralled with her mother. I just thought she was like

God in form. I mean, she would sing these

songs, and, like, they had birds, and the birds would be like singing. But anyway,

she she set me up to work with some of the women that she

was working with at a a program called Village of Power. And this was

part of Hill Health Center at the time. And she's like, yeah, just bring your

guitar, write some music with the ladies, and, you know, and we'll pay for your

time. And I ended up just loving it so much. I ended up doing, like,

their web design and, like, doing all this other stuff. I was like,

oh, like, I can get paid and help people at the same time. Like,

wow, that's cool. That went somewhere right into

my brain. Some kind of reward system happened there. So

my girlfriend's like, oh, you should go to school, go to college. And I was

like, I'm done with college. Like, I'm done with school. That's it. I'm just gonna

make music, see what happens. And I started thinking

at the time, I was working with politicians, and we started this thing called Cafe

Cave Performing Arts Center. And we were we were setting up a nonprofit,

and we're having, like, these events. And then it kinda died

down, and it became evident that, like, you know, maybe I should go to

college and see, like, what there is to see about that. And

I passion to know the vice president at Southern at

the time. He was a family friend, and there was no way I had the

grades or the, you know, the SAT scores to get into

to Southern at the time. And, yeah, he's like, what

do you wanna do? I said, well, I wanna I wanna run this kind of

community coffee shop creative place. I want

to, you know, get a college degree, see what this whole thing is about. Always

like, do you wanna be an RA? Do you wanna, you know, do you wanna

be on student government? I was like, yeah, I'll do that. Of course.

And so, like, he put me as an RA, right, freshman year. I skipped like

a semester or 2. So I was a little bit older than the freshman, but

I already had like this experience, this life experience of traveling the country, and doing

different things. And Yeah. And so

college was just really great for me, because it worked with my

independence. Right? And I didn't have the label of going in

as a special ed kid. I could just literally just be myself walking in, and

what I did to perform, my grades would reflect that.

And I wasn't likely to get kicked out of class. Actually, I did get kicked

out of 1 class in physics, because I was, like, just my mind was blowing

up, and I couldn't stop asking questions, and she asked me to leave because I

was asking too many questions. So college is just really great for me. I

graduated like a 3 day. Right? I mean, it took me 11 years, because I

ended up leaving, and go falling in love, going out to Hawaii,

and experiencing homelessness over there, and then coming back

depressed and near death at the door. But yeah. So,

like, I found my way back to Southern, got found a degree of recreation

therapy, and then that's when I was able to, like, work at the dementia unit

with with elderly who responded to music.

And I was like, oh, wow. I can use music in this place too. Like,

that's kinda cool. And then that door opened to work at

the child psychiatric hospital. I was like, yeah. I record music. Like, hey. Can I

bring in my recording gear and record these kids? And they were like, yeah. Of

course. And that was just like, it's all she wrote. Just awesome. And

so Southern really gave me that opportunity to be

able to get these internships. And then

years later, they ended up putting me on, like, the alumni magazine, which is crazy

for, like, a special ed kid to be on the alumni magazine of the of

the university. So super proud of that, and, super proud of Southern

and everything they do for just a wide range of people.

So yeah. Yeah. Nice. I had some fun too.

So so with the degree, was it something that, like, you

then went into pursuing musical therapy and

then, like, trying to help people with music, or was it more so you were

kinda already doing it? And then and then I know you got a grant awarded

you to start working with homeless people. How how did that all kinda,

intertwine? Sure. So, yeah, I got to a

crossroads working at on the inpatient unit, whether I wanted to

continue as a recreation therapist, which is a certification that you can get,

and, you know, and and you work with insurance and stuff like that,

or kinda branch shop and do my own thing, which is kind of my MO.

So, I just said, let me just

simplify. And and I started, I've left Yale after working there five and a

half years, and I started just kind of going out to different

facilities, and writing and recording original music. And, you know, these are

people with intellectual disabilities. I was working at drug rehabs.

I was working at all kinds of places. And I

didn't have to work like crazy, because I got paid well-to-do

what I was doing, which was which is a huge help from my

supervisor at at Yale. She's the one who told me how to to charge. And

I was like, because I would have just done it for cheap. You know what

I mean? I was just doing what I love. But she's like, no. What you're

doing is like very valuable, and like, not anybody could just walk into

a room full of people and write a song with them. So this is what,

you know, the typical price is. And I'm like, really? I can I can charge

that much money? She was like, yeah. Like, try it. And I was like, okay.

And that was the beginning of being able to, like, really value the service I

was bringing to the table as far as financially so that, you know, I could

really focus on those projects and not and focus on, like, the

bigger picture of, like, what I wanted to shape my life into and

and what kind of impact I wanted to make in the world. And so

being able to work smaller amounts of hours in

one location enabled me to kind of think broader, and

start expanding my reach. So

I ran for mayor in 2013, because that's what you do when you

have some time on your hands. And you're you know, the mayor at the time

was saying some really crazy stuff. And, I thought, you know, maybe I

can make an impact on my community if I rent for mayor, living with my

parents, you know, and, like, not having any

money. Sure. I can run your town.

So I I I carried 2 I carried 2% of

the, the vote, which was crazy, because there was more votes than any independent in

16 years, with a $250 campaign fund. Okay? That's

a little brag, Little casual brag. Wow. But I realized,

like, yeah, like, what would happen if I actually got in there? Then I would

have to play the game, and I'm not interested in playing anybody else's game but

my own. And as long as it works for the greater good, then I'm willing

to compromise a little bit. And so I was kinda like 2013, I was like,

alright, Adam, what are you gonna do now, buddy? So, that

was when I decided, alright, let me just focus on musical intervention,

and just, like, focus and see what happens. And that's when opportunities

started opening up in New Haven. A friend of mine had a restaurant

in on Chapel Street called Inspired Turkey,

and which we we wrote a jingle for, inspired turkey.

And he let me run open mics there, and there is a representative from

the Community Foundation of Greater New Haven. And he's like, wow. Look at this really

cool, diverse, kind of open mic. Like, who are you? What are you doing here?

And I was like, I wanna make I wanna inspire New

Haven. Right? I wanna just change this whole thing up. I want

places to have art and music and creativity, and I wanna do all these

things. And he's like, cool. Like, I'll put you in touch with

somebody. And so I followed a chain, and then ended up with the

Arts Council of Greater New Haven. And, they set me up with a

couple small grants, and one of those in particular, I started

working doing open mics at the soup kitchen. And that was just freaking

awesome. It was just unbelievable. The talent that would just come up and

start singing, everybody's eating, like they're enjoying the

music. And then I started meeting these people who didn't really have a

lot going on during the daytime, except for like hanging out at the green, and

like, you know, trying to stay alive, and things like

that. And they welcomed me in, and we started doing

lives together. I, And we started writing songs together,

and I was doing workshops at the homeless shelter.

And just again, like just, you know, society is just not built.

The one we are working in right now in the US is just not built

for the creatives, the the ones who can't keep up with the education system or

the job security or any of those things. You know, all these

intelligent, brilliant artists and musicians and

passion. So many people who, yeah,

for one reason or another, couldn't keep up with the system

and fell into addiction or serious mental illness,

or homelessness, you know, you name it. And it's just

it's really sad because there's so much opportunity

in America if you can afford it, if you can show

up on time. But yet, the creative people

typically think a little differently and work a little differently. And

so anyways, I sidetracked. So I'm around all of these really creative

purpose, and yeah, we got kicked out of the place we were renting because

the guy didn't want us to be he didn't want homeless people rehearsing

where where we were renting, which I gave him money for. So I felt,

you know, I felt what they were feeling a little bit as far as just

not being welcomed. I mean, I knew that feeling already, but this was kind of

like, hey. I just gave you money. We're using your space to rehearse for a

show, and now we're rehearsing outside in December

on The Green in New Haven, getting ready for a show. So

this great opportunity happened right after that, where Project

Storefront, Eleanor Slumber, who, was in charge of Project

Storefront, knew what I was up to. And and she said, hey, there's this

place that might be available coming up, like, if you wanna take a look at

it. And we just fell in love with the space. And

after we were done with that project, I had all these people and nowhere to

put them. And I didn't wanna just say, alright. Like, nice

knowing you. Thanks for taking part. Like, have a good life. I wanted

more. And so I pulled the trigger

on this place in December 2015 with

no money. I mean, I was still on state insurance

living I was just breaking up with my girlfriend, so I was back to living

with my passion. And no money. Right?

And like, no idea how I'm gonna be able to afford it. And we had,

you know, a good deal going where I didn't have to pay rent or utilities

for 6 months. So I just started, like, you know, asking my dad for help,

and he would like, help me build the walls. We got the permit to build,

and it was just this crazy thing. And people just started chipping in

and and donating their time and freeing up themselves. It's just crazy

watching it all come together, and then, like, okay. But the money is gonna

have to start coming too, and that was crazy. So we did

an event, the grand opening, and, the newspaper took took out

an article. And then Bob Cole, who is the COO of

CMHC, saw it, and was like, oh man, like, I want this

for people at the Connecticut Mental Health Center. How could we

help Adam what he's doing with musical intervention?

And then he was able to, secure a contract where I could work

on-site at CMHC. And, and that money that I

had was making there, I would put into once the rent came in, which it

did, I started just putting that money into into this space.

And so it was all volunteer, including me.

And, you know, it took me a good 2 years,

two and a half years to meet my wife, get

out of state insurance, and start actually, you

know, breaking even. Wow. Yeah. That

sounds Crazy. Yeah. It it sounds like

the the the driving force behind it, though, was the idea that you

had and being sure of, like, the place that you want. Like, I think it's

it's interesting the different perspectives that, like, people have on

business. Like, a lot of people, you know, you want a business plan, how's it

gonna start making money, and all the specifics and stuff like that. But it

seems like you didn't think about any of that and just had the one

idea that you wanted and then started collecting people around you that

saw the vision that you did. And then somehow, you know, it just came

about and and things started falling in place. Do you think about that at all?

I I I wish it was that easy. I it wasn't that easy. Right? I

mean, I I do have a business mind where, like, I had to put the

business plan together. Right? I had to do the numbers, and I had to look

hard numbers in the face. Right? But I was

advised early to start a nonprofit and,

like, then take the small steps. Right? Get your board

together. Start raising some money. Do a couple of events.

Right? And go that route. And I was like, well, that's not gonna happen because

I have these people that need help right now. And the only way to do

that is to make your own decisions, and you can't really do that with a

board. Right? Board has to approve all of the

decisions. So I just thought, like, I'm not ready for a board. I'm not ready

to to answer to anybody except for myself and

the entities that I will work for. And so

the money, like, it it didn't it it was magic, yes, in a

sense that, like, the opportunities were coming, and that's,

like, spiritual. Right? How the timing of all these

things work. But being a good steward of the money and

finagling everything, just just being able to

navigate so many huge changes as a small

business owner, right, from your own salary,

right, to the bills, to

stipends for people who are helping out and who are really in need of stipends,

to, you know, negotiating your lease and

your rent and in a in a downtown New Haven space

full well while managing so many different types of personalities

that are coming in the door as you are maintaining your drug and alcohol sober

space, in a challenging environment

with addiction running crazy rampant

everywhere. And you know, people always say music

in in in attics are a lot of times are

happening at the same time, and and there is truth to that. But I think

what we've been able to stand for is that music can be

completely separate from addiction and from drugs. And there is a high that you

do get in music, and there's a meaning that you get from music

that sometimes drugs take away from you. Yes, it's more enjoyable

because you are high, but at the same time, you are

risking a lot more by going into those different worlds. So

I I carry myself like I it's all magic, because

it is. But the idea of, like,

running the business and turning a profit and eventually

not doing things for free all the time became,

you know, an important aspect. And then lessons now that

I'm training other people in is, like, you know, valuing yourself

and making sure that, you can

stand up for yourself, and not get pushed around simply I mean, just by doing

a good thing, people wanna push you around. It's that's my been my experience.

I've been pushed around by the city of New Haven. I've been pushed around by

by my landlord, and by many other entities within the city of

New Haven. But I didn't back down, because

I stood with the people I was with, in the place that I created.

Right? And I always try to go back to that place, especially

when I get discouraged that it's not supported

by entities that wanna take credit for it being in

New Haven, but at the same time, like, you know, not

putting any of the bills that cost to run the place.

And Yeah. One organization in particular that that supported me

in my time of need here is the Department of Mental Health and Addiction

Services. We had just had a flood in the back here. It was about

3 years into owning the space. And I

was kind of like burning out, and it was just so busy. There

were like I had like 30 volunteers. It was just so amazing.

And then, you know, one of the representatives from Demus came in, and he was

like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You have people who are down and out.

You have Yailies, you have retirees, all mixing

and and just making it work in this place.

How is this sustainable to you, Adam? I'm like, well, you know, I'm just living

the dream. I'm making passion it work. And

they were able to put down a good amount of money every year so far

for rent, and to, to ensure that music's

being made here. So huge shout out to the Department of Mental Health and

Addiction Services for believing and seeing what what we've

been able to accomplish here and continue to invest in that. You

know, although we've asked for more, and we haven't been granted more,

it it's gotta be its own timing. And I think that's what I'm also learning

in this whole process, is that I can push, and push, and

push, and push. And if I push and get discouraged,

everybody else is going to pay for that. They're gonna it's

just gonna be a negative vibe. If I

push and accept the results, right,

or if I receive and and just let the results play out as

they do, and return to the music, and return to the

smiles that that happen here on a regular basis, it

does somehow work itself out. It has been my

experience. You know? Mhmm. Yeah. That's

interesting. Do you think it has to do with, like, getting outside

of yourself and, like, kind of leaning on the people that are around you

and then kinda, like, almost fighting for them in a way that's best for them.

Is that kinda like what you're saying? Or Yeah. The second part is

what you're right. Fighting for them, I think, is the key component to everything.

I do feel a bit of an island. I have a responsibility

to this space more than any person, if that makes any sense.

So holding the space is is

is the first step, is to be like, alright, integrity, seek the

good in everybody that comes through the door. Right? Give people the extra

chances. Let them know when they've gone too far, kind of

stuff. And with that relationship, you you have to

kind of be separate, but together. Know what I'm saying?

And that only works if your entire life

if if your entire business, I guess you could say, it's been my life,

but is to stand in the gap for the people

you're serving. Like to fight for them, to put what you've

seen, and what you've experienced through them in

the broader public discussion, right, about homelessness,

about drug addiction, about rape and abuse, about

prejudice. All these different things that are going on in

people's lives that really can tear them down to make those things

known, to make a person feel like they're heard, and that they can share

their story and empower them to share their story through music, through

activism, through whatever, that makes it okay

to sacrifice maybe some of the things I miss by being

completely present with people. I wanna be

there for people, but I can only be there so much, because

I'm holding space for so many people.

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, when you say you're

being present for for people, does that also tie in with,

like, vulnerability? Because I I think the word vulnerability kinda ties

into the whole thing because in my experience, the more vulnerable I've been,

the more help you get from the people around you. Right? And and

people can see the things that you're struggling with, and they become less of a

burden on your own self. And I think music is

in and of itself a vulnerable thing to, like, sing in front of people and

to, like, write lyrics that, you know, came from your soul.

Right? What do you think makes and maybe

this might be my perspective, but, like, you seem to be pretty good at being

vulnerable. And and do you do you think about, like, what makes you good at

that, or, like, what would you say to somebody who's, like, maybe not good at

being vulnerable? Do you would you have any advice? I I think what

you had said was really great, because, music,

it really does give you the opportunity to,

communicate with other people that you're playing with, with the

audience, whatever, differently than you you might feel

talking about sports or whatever else people are talking

about. So I think, you know, the ability

to improv, the ability to have a freedom

to say what you don't know is gonna come out without having to

think about or process what's what's gonna come out of your mouth when you start

talking is a real strength. It's a great tool to

have. And a lot of people don't allow themselves the

opportunity to trust to fall into their own arms,

and trusting themselves that whatever comes out is going to be

authentic to themselves. And you know, you

have to cast out fear to be able to do that. Because if you're

thinking about how is this going to sound with or how are people going to

judge me, or you know, any of those thoughts,

you're not gonna be able to do the trust ball. You're not gonna be able

to to be vulnerable. Mhmm. And

so the lesson to, like, improvisation, the

passion to just throw yourself out there into, you know, 4

bars that you'd have no idea what they're gonna be about, but you got a

chord progression going, and you're just gonna start singing. And you

don't know what it is, but you're gonna trust that whatever comes out, you're

gonna ride. And that skill, I

think, is something that served me really,

really well in life. And, you know, of course, I piss off a lot

of people by saying things that maybe I'm not thinking clearly, and

I'm just saying them. And, you know, there's prices to pay for

everything you do. And who knows what's right or what's wrong.

Right? But, like, like, the opportunity to

to give that skill set to people and to to get people to take that

step, to be able to trust themselves, to say

what's on their mind without thinking, and then let the mind catch up

to it, I think is probably the best advice I can give to

anybody who's trying to be vulnerable. And

maybe even makes it a little easier, because it takes some

of the thinking out of it for purpose. Because I know a lot of people,

like, they they really want they really think long and hard before they

say anything, and a lot isn't said.

And, you know, again, whether it's what's right or what's wrong

doesn't doesn't faze me. But there are a lot of people in

this world that can use positive affirmations and

words of wisdom and knowledge. And if everybody's

keeping their mouth closed, then these words aren't gonna be spoken, and

people are gonna be delayed in their

freedom. And so that's why I truly believe that people

can be that vessel, and creatives especially,

who can create something out of nothing, have the

opportunity to send messages to people that can uplift

them, make them think deeper, give them opportunities

into other ideas that they might not have put together. Again,

joy, fun, sadness, empathy, all of those

key human experiences happen because

people share and they express, and a

person can can vibe off that and then share back. And,

yeah, that's that's it. Yeah.

No. Yeah. I love that. And it's it's it makes me think

about too a lot of times purpose are never,

like, asked of their opinion or never, like, you know, their opinion

isn't valued or maybe they're growing up, their opinions were scolded or

told that's not the right way to do it. And I think what you're doing

is you're you're finding communities of people and and with

through music, asking them, like, what do you have to say? You know, with your

guitar, what do you have to say? Yeah. And giving them that power to, like,

be sure of their own inner thoughts. And I think that that's the greatest, like,

gift you could give somebody. And Oh, that's cool. Like, man, to think of, like,

purpose, like, that's that's just crazy. I was just thinking because, like, one

of my favorite things I've been doing is called write a song with me.

And it started years ago with a little sandwich board,

and it would say, like, you know, write a song with me, and I'd I'd

be sitting there on my guitar, and I'd have an empty seat next to me,

and somebody walking down the street would hang out. They'd be either waiting for somebody

or whatever. And we would just write a song right there. And it's really

funny. My favorite part is when somebody's like, Oh, I don't know how to

write. And then I just literally take those words, I don't know how to write,

and I start singing. They're like, Oh, you just say whatever? I'm like, Yeah, you

just say whatever. And then we'll make logic of it as we go

along, but it's going to make sense. You just have to start.

And I feel like that's, a huge like, tripping tripping

spot for people. They just don't have the courage to, like, just drop something.

And, you know, it's it's really freeing to watch people go

through that process and be like, wow. Like, I wrote a song. Like, holy crap.

Didn't ever think I was going to do that. And you kind of take

the magic out of the music making. Right? You make it accessible to

people. And that's what it was, right? Hanging around the fire, telling

stories of your ancestors through song. And that's what we're supposed to be

doing, because our brains are limited, and

music occupies the entire brain. And that's

why we're able to remember song lyrics, but can't remember

books. You know? Short stories are tough.

But, like, the music opens the brain, and then the lyrics are just

little crumbs that leaves all over the brain. And our brains are able

to just put it all together because we have so so much emotion behind

it. It's so engaging. And that's one really cool thing I like about, like,

the research that we're doing with Yale now. So, like, one really cool

thing is I met this guy, doctor Philip Corlett,

because there was a research grant that the National Endowment of the Arts, the Kennedy

Center, and the National Institute of Health collaborated

with, called the sound a sound grant or a sound initiative.

And it's for, you know, music programs or

interventions that can impact mental

health. So doctor Philip Korolets focuses specifically on

neuroscience, and his one of his specialties is

hallucinations. And which is really interesting because my mother has

paranoid schizophrenia with auditory hallucinations. And

so we meet up. We put this kind of proposal together with songwriting,

karaoke, song listening, and we give it to the NIH, and

they they accept it, and we get awarded this, like, $2,300,000

research grant to look over 5 years on

how these small groups of songwriting and

music groups, impact people, and whether or not

the the distress level of their psychosis, of their auditory hallucinations,

decreases or increases based on these interventions.

And, yeah, after 2 years, we got some really positive data

back that allowed us to pursue another 3 years of

studying the intervention and unlocked, the phase 2, which

is like the karaoke and the song listening and all these other things. And it

turns out that people's language change in these in these groups. And

I'm really excited. We have another year left before all of these data points are

gonna be super collected and published. And and,

you know, maybe we can piggyback on this and do more populations

and and see, you know, how community

and song making in community, that's about as tight as you can get,

really impacts serious mental illness and how we can

bridge the gap of, you know, people that are isolating because of their mental illness

and bringing them into the fold of a larger community of people that are

doing things that they do well. You know, as opposed to being like,

well, all of the schizophrenics are over here, and all of the addicts are

over here, and we just compartmentalize all of these populations, as

opposed to being like, well, what about the arts? You know,

what about sports and woodworking and and and all these different

engaging activities, which is all recreation therapy, very, very,

very focused on leisure education. How can broader communities come

together and learn from each other like we should be

and, living more full lives. Right? So that's

the key component. Yeah. That's super cool.

I mean, it's a area of therapy that, like, I never even really knew much

about, so it's cool to, like, hear how it's actually affecting and

and getting Yale in to get, like, numbers behind it is, like, the coolest

thing. And I and I heard you say, somewhere, it might have been, like, a

video or podcast, about communicating with your mother. And and sometimes

it can be tough, but when you play music with her, she kinda, like, comes

alive and, like Mhmm. I don't know. That that, like, really struck me and, like,

made me think about, like, the power of communicating in that way.

And, yeah, it's just it's it's like a a magic that,

like, I think a lot of us take for granted because music is so accessible

nowadays that, like, you know, you put it on through everything

and don't really think too much about, you know, how it got there

or, like, what inspired Yeah. It to get there. But, like,

yeah, that's both good and the bad thing, I guess. But but, yeah, it's really

cool to, to encapsulate music and all this. 2

things really work for my mom the most. Music is great because I can if

she's kinda, like, out of it a little bit, I can invite her on stage,

and then, like, start singing this thing, and then she could start improving, and then

I can then we'll have a a good couple laps, and, like, I'll have my

mom back. But the other thing is just really cool, which I wanna, like, I

wanna know more about, which is I'll get behind my mom, and I'll just

massage her back a little bit, And I'll get into that deep tissue.

Like, I'm a Swedish, so I can do the Swedish massage. And,

I swear, it's like a light switches in her,

and she goes comes out for air, like, every

time. And, like, there there's something really beautiful about that

that I really wanna look into, as far as like massage therapy

on, psychosis, and muscle tension, and how

those things impact our our mental health. And, obviously, like,

it's tricky. Right? I'm her son, so she enjoys a massage from her son.

Right? So there's a lot of, like, things you'd have to, like,

look at as far as, like, paranoia of of people and and, you know,

different things, but there's gotta be something muscle kind of stimulation

mixed in with, like, positive reinforcement from,

like, family or something. Because that's what it is. Right?

Like, mental health is is something there's a lot of biological

stuff going on, but a lot of it also is these, like, triggers and

these these terrible lessons that we've learned, and and we've

perceived that we have to so many gaps to fill and ways to

protect ourselves, and some are helpful, and some are

not. And so, yeah. So, you know, this massage, something

as simple as going behind my mom, giving her a massage, and then all of

a sudden, she's like light on her toes, and we're dancing, and like you know

what I mean? So cool to watch that kind of stuff too.

Yeah. That's crazy. It's definitely super interesting. And if you've ever,

like, read the book The Body Keeps Score, I'm sure that has something to do

with it too, like the embedded trauma in the tissues and the muscle

and somehow massaging it is, like, releasing that negative

energy. Like, that's super interesting, especially in combination with music, like,

how much healing you could do with that, man. Let's do it. Right

in here too. I I turn the lights off, and it got, like, we'll we'll

get, like, the, the chakra sound, certain chakra sounds, right, with the

sound bed. Certain frequencies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I I do wanna talk a little

bit about music therapy. So I'm I'm not a music therapist.

Southern just opened up a music therapy department. I'm thinking about

it. You know? But it's like, what I'm doing is so much more just

like studio production. Right? And, like, I happen to work

be able to work with people who express themselves differently than a

typical client coming to your studio to record their next hit.

Right? And so, there's it's just an ability to work with

a larger clientele, but like, the field of music therapy, I

think, is really important, because it's very specific, and

it has, a lot of really

great, I'm gonna use the right word, applications

in so many settings. And for people

interested in in helping people with music and their

talent, I think music therapy is just a really great way to do

it. I preferred recreation therapy because

it's so much more broad. You can do music. You can do

art as therapy. So for example, my wife is an art therapist. Right?

And if I'm a rec therapist, right, and I'm doing art, I

can't call myself an art therapist. Right? I can't call myself a music

therapist if I'm doing music as a recreation therapist.

Right? I'm doing recreation therapy. And so there's

there's room for all of those things, especially in like inpatient settings,

and and a lot of rehab stuff. But there's

also like the dynamic. And this is like something

important that I really want to like somehow influence

in my life, which is the dynamic between a

therapist and a patient is of a hierarchy.

Right? And and there are a lot of rules for good reason to

not cross boundaries. However, the person

coming to you for help is very

much identifying as the diagnosis. Like,

I have this diagnosis, therefore, I can get services from you. And I

just feel like even with the research thing, like, hey. Like, I have passion, or

I have auditory hallucinations. I can qualify for this study.

Now I'm identifying as somebody who has auditory hallucinations in order to

get, you know, this great compensation, $500 of

compensation. I don't know, it's 700. And, you

know, like, we've had really great experiences. I just don't like

that dynamic of somebody having to be like, Here's my diagnosis.

Now I get a green light to get something from you. And I feel like

that's more of an amen to something that,

you know, you struggle with. And so it's kinda putting like a positive,

weird, like, value on this diagnosis to be able to get, like, the

housing. Right? The the benefits, the the the

insurance. And I just feel like that identity is I mean, it's hard. How

can you imagine not having a system that you have to identify as this

to get that? But I feel like what we're doing at musical intervention,

which is you don't need a diagnosis to come in here, you just wanna play.

You wanna make music. You're coming in as a guitar player, not as somebody who

has bipolar. Right? Like, there's something about what's

happening here that's giving people their identity back, and their

identity at their core, not their identity through their diagnosis,

but their identity of what what they're passionate about, who they

are, like, how they wanna express themselves. And

I just wanna see more of that in the world. I wanna see more opportunities

for the people who are casted out of society because they express

themselves differently to now be, like,

celebrated in the community because they express themselves differently.

Yeah. And and I think another differentiation too is

is one is something somebody is telling you and the other is something

you're choosing. Right? Like, you're walking in there saying I'm a guitar player. But,

like, if you walk in and get a diagnosis as bipolar, like, you're not not

really choosing that. Right? Right. But you can choose to be a guitar player, a

musician. Right. So that that is super interesting. That's like Yeah. Man, I could

talk to you for, like, an hour about that, but Yeah. We are we are

kinda getting to the end of our time. But I do have to ask you

about purpose and, you know, your your thoughts on it. That's part of the name

of this podcast, part of what's got me on my journey. What are your

thoughts on purpose? Is it something you think about? Is it something that's important to

you? Yeah. Let me know your thoughts. Sure. Purpose is a

gift, I think. If you can visualize something

that you're passionate about and something that you care about, and something

that serves the greater good, the humans,

animals, and the earth, something of positive nature,

something instructive. If you can imagine your life

contributing to those things in positive ways, and then figuring out a

way to financially be able to sustain yourself in it, you know, you've got

kind of a perfect storm for, your purpose. Now

there's purpose, obviously, you could pursue things

that maybe you won't be able to get financially, rewarded, so you

have to do other things to compensate for these

other things that you wanna do. And, and that's

called sacrifice. Anybody with children learn that right off the

rip. And I think that there's there's room for that in this

thing, because, you know, it is a system created

by humans, so it's not perfect. And,

you know, it would be great if people can just be like, oh, I have

a purpose to do this. Great. Here's the here's the green light. Here's

all the money you're gonna need to do it. And so, yeah. So, I

mean, I worked trades so many years, right? And while I'm doing the

trade work, I'm thinking to myself, oh, like, man, if I could

just be making music right now and, like, touring and and making tons of

money and and, like, having tons of, like, never mind.

If I could be doing that life right now and not, like, sitting up on

top of this roof melting, then, you know, I'd

be living my purpose. And, you know,

there's lessons that you learn, and appreciations that you

get by doing the hard thing, by sacrificing, doing things that

maybe you're not super passionate about, but they're paying for

your way to be able to do the things you're super passionate about. And so,

yeah. So without purpose, as far as, like, even if you

have a job that you were telling me before, about, hey, I'm not passionate

about it. I'm making money. I'm working with the DOJ, for God's sakes. Or, I

mean, DOD, even bigger. But

I'm missing something. There's something missing here.

And you visualized it, you saw it, and you pursued it, and now you're living

it. And that's exactly what happened here. I saw what it was, I saw the

space, and I knew what was gonna happen in there. I

didn't see the people, which was the greatest surprise of my life, which is something

you get to experience. Right? Every time you're doing a podcast, you get to see

this other person. And you didn't know that they were gonna be there when you

started it. Right? And so I think that's the most beautiful thing

is the is the journey of the purpose. But, yeah, without

without purpose and persistence, I think it's a tough go.

It's a tough go in this world if you don't have those key components. And

so yeah. So whether you're lucky to be able to have your purpose, be

your sustainability, your ability to provide for yourself and provide for

others, or you have to sacrifice and do the the job that maybe you're not

crazy about, but you get to do the other thing with the other time.

That's, that's a blessing. I think that's the that

that's the blessed life. You know? And, the impact

you make on the world and the stories that you share, hopefully, do

awaken those who maybe don't have the courage to

take the first step, just like the improv. Just taking the first step in

doing the thing you're passionate about, taking all of the weight

and the meaning away from it, and just doing it,

just trust falling into yourself and doing it

is is the only way to get it done. Because you could think about it

until the cows come home, but life is gonna come and and mess with it

anyway. And so if it's if it's meant to be, and you're and

you're purposeful about it, and you're passionate about it,

whatever storm comes, you just kind of navigate through, and,

you know, you expect it, and you enjoy the ride because you get to

do the thing you're passionate about. So Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

That's beautiful. Cool podcast. Thanks for that.

Totally. And I'll definitely leave, all the links in the show notes for people to

connect with you and all that. But, yeah, you guys have jam night

jam nights, jam days every Wednesday? Wanna Yeah. Every Wednesday. Yeah. Yeah.

Every Wednesday, from 1 to 4, people are jamming

here, and it's cool. And then Thursday night open mics are amazing, because we

have a drum circle from 5 to 6, and then open mic

from, like, 6 till 9:30, 10 o'clock sometimes. And

it's very diverse, very welcoming, all skill

levels, all kinds of things. And that's at

23 Temple Street, New Haven, Connecticut, and, musical

intervention. Do it. Do it.

Thanks so much, Adam. Thank you for listening to Working

Towards Our Purpose. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share

with a friend or leave a review at Apple Podcasts

or Spotify. And if you'd like to support the show, you can

go to my website, working towards our purpose, where you could

purchase Working Towards Our Purpose official merchandise.

Thanks for

listening.