Working Towards Our Purpose

Welcome to Working Towards Our Purpose, a podcast that

offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone

out there that's heard that voice in the back of their head asking for something

more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino,

and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own

purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired,

and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.

So joining me today on the podcast is Trevor Hufford, who is co

founder of Box, which is a startup that creates prefab

work from home pods that are installed in your backyard. It's a really

cool idea, and I'm looking forward to getting to talk more about the business. But,

Trevor, thanks so much for being here. How are you doing today? I'm doing great.

I'm very excited about being here. Little nervous, but but very

excited. Well, glad to have you. Glad to have you. So, yeah, if

you wanna just start off by telling me a little bit more about yourself

and a little bit about Box and what you do, I think that'd be a

good start. Well, so Box is a

very early stage startup company that

we thought about kind of, you know, mid

pandemic. So it's definitely driven by that. So many

people working from home, we thought there was a need to

have kind of a separate space that you could

go to to get away from the house, but

not, you know, spend an hour, hour and a half on a train

getting there, or an hour, an hour and a half in traffic getting

there. My day job is selling what is

called structural insulated panels. We call them SIPs,

and they're a very energy efficient way

to build a new home or a new building. They're very

large panels. They have 2 pieces of of

OSB glued to a foam core, so they look like a

big ice cream sandwich. And they basically replace

all the exterior studs in a house and

and then the rafters in the roof. And you replace them with

these big sheets that are, then cut with a very

precise CNC machine to be the puzzle parts

that you need to put your house together. Mhmm. So during during

the pandemic, people were calling me and saying,

hey. Could I build a, you know, a studio in the

backyard with your panels? I got enough calls

that I thought maybe this was a business. And,

that was the formation of the the decision to

go forward on this. Taken a while to come up with a a

marketing plan. How do we reach people that that want

one of these studios? But it seems like a very

large market. There are a couple of national, competitors,

but this still seems like a very highly fragmented business.

Interesting. Yeah. It's definitely something I never was aware of before that was an option.

I know that there's some, like, interior kinda,

like, similar solutions for, like, more so for offices, and I've seen those before. But

I think it's a definitely a cool idea to, you know, be outside of your

living space and to kinda have a mini office in your backyard.

Yeah. We we just sold one of our first, or it was actually

our second pod. I actually like to use the word studio versus

pod, but we we use the word pod in our website a lot because

it's a keyword that Mhmm. We're searching for. But we like to call them

studios. You know, one of the audiences we

thought maybe would use them are podcasters. So Yeah.

Tell one to you. Yeah. Maybe in the future. I was I was

curious about that because when you say studio, I think of, you know,

music having a music studio in your backyard. I think that'd be pretty cool to

have all the audio equipment and everything. Yeah. And and and the the the

studios really are we're trying to sell them as traditional

office spaces, but we're also marketing them as, yoga

studios or workout areas, she sheds or e

sheds or whatever you wanna call them. Psychiatric

offices where you might have a home practice and people would

come in. We get you out of the house to provide the privacy that might

be needed. When we have sold them, you know, people have been,

you know, they're working out of their basement often. And they'll

say, oh, yeah. You know, I'm working down the basement. It really stinks. I can't

see outside at all. And, you know, and my kids interrupt.

And and just as they say that, usually their kids run-in the back

and make some loud noise. So if you're if you were a

professional corporation, you might actually wanna buy

these for your employees as a fringe

benefit so that they're in more professional

places even when they're at home. The cost of our

units is low enough that it's cheaper to

have one of our units than to have an office space in some, you know,

in big cities. So, you actually can save

money. You may gain a little more, loyalty if

your your employees have these, And we can also,

design them to be branded. So, you know, if you had a blue

color, we could use that color on the walls or, you know,

put a sign up or whatever made the branding work.

Mhmm. Very interesting. So, yeah, I guess if we, maybe can

go a little bit more into, like, your history and may maybe your schooling and,

like, what brought you what is your your previous work history and your background?

So my my my background is definitely not where I am.

So I I graduated in 1987 from Brown

University with a degree in computer science. I was early

enough that, like, when I grew up, I didn't know anybody in

that industry. So I, you know, I didn't know that there was a job called

programmer. But I really loved it when I got to ground and,

I majored in it. And I got out, and

I was first hired into an investment banking position

to help other investment bankers use computers. And I

thought it'd be very intense programming and stuff like that. It turned out that I

was basically plugging in computers or installing

computers and things like that. But I was put through the training

program as a investment banker, and I quickly

changed my career and went into investment banking. So I did that for a

couple of 3 2 or 3 years as an analyst, and then, went

back to business school and graduated from, Duke's

Business School, Fuqua, and went back into

investment banking for another 7 or 8 years. And, you

know, it was a great learning experience and stuff like that, but I

really wanted to do things versus help other people do

things. And so I always wanted to be the

guy on the other side of the table. So, in

roughly 2000, I, left investment banking

and did a startup in the voice over IP

industry. You know, great experience on startups.

At one point had made lots and lots of money, but the

dotcom thing blew up right then, and there went the money.

So at least I learned how to deal with cycles pretty well. After that

first start up or actually, there were 2 start ups there. I decided I

wanted to kinda look at what I wanted to do with the rest of my

life, and I wanted to do something that I really enjoyed getting up

every morning and doing. I'd spent a lot of time in my

childhood with my passion, kind of renovating houses and stuff

like that. I've always been kind of a tinkerer and

thought I might wanna get into building. I found a company that

was struggling on the business side, but but a very good builder.

And they hired me as their COO, and I embarked on

a career of building very, very, very high end homes

in Greenwich, Connecticut and, Fishers Island, New

York. And we we ran a very successful

design build with 10 architects on staff company

until 2009 when the 2008, 2009

housing crisis happened. And basically all construction

just stopped overnight. So at that point, I had to recreate myself

again, and I joined a startup company that

was building kind of very green, very innovative

modular homes that you could build

almost a 100% in the factory, fold them

up, put them on the truck, ship them across the country,

and then unfold them. And, you know, kind of 5 days later, the owners are

ready to paint and move in. And that was just

kind of revolutionary on you know, versus the very high end building

where everything you know, we massaged every piece of wood

and stained it. Everything was perfect. This was

really thinking about how do you manufacture a home,

standardize it, and then make it deliverable. It was a

great great learning experience. In that process, I learned

about structural insulated panels. I then bought a structural

insulated panel company down in Texas and tried to make that

work. That lasted for about 3 or 4 years. We weren't able to

grow it fast enough, so we ended up selling the assets. And

I've been selling for other people, and designing

homes for people using these structural insulated

panels. And that led me to

thinking about prefab building a lot, what I

call precision building, where we

really design every bit of it in 3 d,

typically. So every screw, every nail,

every wire is typically predrawn

into whatever structure we're building. And that's what we did

at at the start up modular company. And

so every decision was made virtually before

we then executed in the real world.

So one of the keys to, Box is

that soon, we think we'll be able to every

part that we're putting into the module will

be a precision part versus

a craftsman built piece of wood that has been

whittled into the right shape and connected very carefully.

It'll be more like assembling a car or other manufactured

goods, and we actually may be able to use robotics

to build these things. So we've already simulated

taking these large passion, and, you know, you got a

pile of these panels and you pick them up and put them together, and

it builds the the box that is our basic design for

for our company. So I would expect in 2

years or 3 years that we'll be fully automated in our manufacturing

facility. So, it sounds like you've had a a

interesting kind of turn of of career events, and I'm curious to

know because because I'm similar, and my corporate background is

kinda very different from what I do now. Was was there

things that you, like, appreciate from your undergrad degree

and things, like, transferable skills that you've used to be able to kind of

leverage new passion? So everything that I've done,

I've kind of looked at it from a computer or, you know, automation

kind of a point of view is even when I was doing finance,

you know, how do we make a, you know, an Excel or Lotus spreadsheet at

that time? Now how do we take that and make it really robust,

fully automated, you know, giving back, data

in a better way. Back then, you know, nobody had iPhones or anything

like that, so just getting stock data and then downloading it from

some online source was a creative thing.

Nowadays, everybody can get any stock price anytime all the

time. So it's always been that.

Once the computer, you know, 3 d modeling came out, I've

basically been, you know, self taught how to use

3 d modeling software. I've now written programs

that are part of the the 3 d model that you can,

you know, take a stick frame, drawing and then fully

populate it with the structural components.

Interesting. I did a little bit of 3 d modeling, when I went to

engineering school. I thought it was cool, but I I never once I got into

the working force similar similar to you, I was basically making presentations

and not really doing any engineering. You said something about,

you know, being able to work with your hands and and that kind of inspiring

you to maybe go in into a specific direction. I find that similar

with myself. In in high school, we had a, like, a very

robust shop program. So I really got, like, a chance to learn how to weld

and to use mills and lathes and stuff like that, and we had a construction

class. So I really enjoyed that stuff in high school. But then

once I graduated, I never really got a chance to do that sort of thing

anymore. So can you talk to me about a little bit how you are able

to use your hands more and and how that inspires you to do the work

that you do? Yeah. Well, the the great thing about startups

is you get to, kinda get to do everything

once or twice. So recently, we've been

putting together these models or the, you know, designing these

structures for the box. And, you know, on the weekends,

I will go down in my workshop and put something together

as a mock up. I'm not the world's greatest carpenter, but I can

figure it out and make sure that it it actually works even though

we've drawn it in 3 d. So I get to do some of that

because I'm the corporate structure at this point. You

know, there's nobody else yet to do that. And then even when you get a

little bigger, you know, you're you're often going out and

working with guys that are really doing the work. And

that's that's kind of been awe inspiring for me too is to

to get to work with guys that maybe haven't had the education

benefits that I've had, but are truly gifted

tradesmen and really know their stuff.

And to go out and design something and then have their

input has been a huge value, driver

for me. So just that experience of working with people that really

know a trade has been a very

exciting part of the the thing. I also grew up with a lot of,

wood workshops in houses, and my grandparents had a big, big,

workshop with leads and drills and band saws

and things like that. So Neat. That's awesome. That's

awesome. So can you talk to me a little bit more about

how you got into kinda start ups? Because you did mention that you had some

previous startups before Box. Yeah. Right. But, unfortunately, I've had too

many. Again, they're just you know, you get to

create. I I constantly wanna be kinda creating

something. I'm not very good at keeping the books every

day, but I'm really good at setting up how to do the

books, you know, figuring out processes or at

least eliciting experts to help me figure that out.

So startups are just a great place to to just be

creative every day. You're learning you know, if you're

designing a new way to build a house,

it's just every day you're learning something new. And,

that's what's really kept me interested in

always trying something new. It makes it very difficult to go to

back to a corporate kind of place where you might be doing one thing for

the rest of your life. Mhmm. For sure. And and

I guess off of that note, maybe, you know, the the work

life balance part of it. What does success look like to you as far as,

like, a startup being successful? Is it is it just, you know,

sales and and that sort of thing, or is it also, you know, balancing

doing creative things and and the work life balance part of it? Well, I

I've never been really good at work life balance. I I I tend to

work pretty hard every day. The greatest thing

I've had is just kind of again, I get back to the word of

creating. I mean, I love creating jobs for people.

The success for me would be to have a company that is

is able to have created a product

and then be reasonably stable. I'm not looking to

make, you know, 1,000,000,000 of dollars or, you know, that would be fine, but

that's not what really drives me every day. It's creating an

organization that is self sustaining and can

create value for for lots of the stakeholders

in the company that are not just me or my partner.

So that that would be success. It's it's hard

to do. I've done probably 4 or 5 startups

in, you know, some that were very, very well funded

and some that were not, and some that

were worth a $1,000,000,000 at one point, and, you know,

2 years later were worth nothing. I've probably done 5,

and I don't know that any of them are still functioning. That doesn't

mean that they didn't run for 5 or 10 years and and have

great success, but they tend to be kind of cutting edge and

either get acquired or bought out or the technology went away

or whatever. You know, the first one I did was a

telephone startup that did voice over IP

internationally, and we were the first people to get it going. And it

was, like, it went to a 1000000000

in value in 2,000, and, you know, we thought we were

at a rocket ship. And 2 years later, it was out of business,

and everybody in the world could do voice over IP. The technology we're

using today is what we designed. Okay? We had a

company called Phone Free over your computer.

You could call anywhere for free. The problem

was that it didn't have a really good revenue model because it was free.

Right. Interesting. That I mean, that's gotta be a, like, a

wild cycle of of the highs to the lows. How how

do you, how do you, like, deal with that? It's it's been difficult.

I mean, you know, my career, I'm I'm not sure. Though I've enjoyed

every minute of it or many of the minutes of it. It has not

been a steady course. It has not been incredibly stable.

So it's it's been a challenge in a lot of ways, but at

least emotionally, it's been it's been very rewarding for me.

Yeah. And I I think that's a good point in, you know, in contrast

to at least my previous corporate job of of the very

stableness of it, and you get the paycheck no matter what even gets accomplished,

really. But the trade off being maybe you get to

do cool things and you get to work on things and and experience the

highs and the lows and and kinda learn from them. Has

there ever been, a job where you did have, like, that stability? Well, well, for

the first 10 years of my life, I was an investment banker. So, you

know, lots and lots of stability, lots

and lots and lots of hours. So very intense.

So I'm not sure it's called stable, but it was very

financially rewarding and and absolutely a paycheck every

day or every week or whatever it was. So so there were

10 years or so of that. It was, you know, a 100 a

120 hours a week on a regular basis. So it

wasn't loads of fun or you were always tired. You're always

pulling all nighters, and you were rarely going out to happy hours with

your buddies. So but it was great. 2 months into

my thing, I was making presentations in front of boards of

directors of big companies. So

And and all part of the process, I would imagine.

So what were the specific challenges now talking about box startup?

What were some of the specific challenges you had with creating that company and

especially, you know, in the midst of a pandemic? So I'm pretty good at

the the, operational side of these kind of businesses,

the design side, you know, how to make things go

together and and the physical part of it. The

marketing has been very difficult. How do you find somebody

that wants one of these things in their backyard? It's it's a

needle in a haystack. Now there are lots of needles. So

we think that there's an opportunity there. And right now we're,

you know, we really started kicking this off kind of late last

year. So we've been working on it for 3 or 4 months on the

marketing side, and we're starting to see some more traction on our

website and stuff like that. But that's been the hard part and

that's been the hard, you know, I think that's the hard part for any business

is how do you sell the great solution that

you've come up with? You know, there are way more products that are

great than there are that have been able to be sold.

Having the idea is almost, you know, the least important part.

It's how do you find people that might want what you're

selling. Yeah. I I think there's a chance you might interview my partner.

She's got the unenviable, job of trying to figure

out a marketing plan to get out there and reach people.

And so far, she's done a great job. You know, a month after we

you know, we'd been we'd spent a couple of, you know, a year or so

trying to, you know, wing it. And then we got she joined

us as a cofounder, and it's

going very well so far. It's still very early.

Mhmm. So when when you

first started, were you the only founder and then you kinda brought her on as

as help? Or No. I I had an initial partner that

who thought he had the time to come up with an idea of how to

market it. And in the end, he was just too busy, you know, with a

very dynamic career of his own to spend the

time to do it every day, stuff like

that. So after a while, he bowed out. He's still a partner, you know, still

a, shareholder of the company, but he's not helping us run that

business on a day to day basis. And that's, you know, that's another,

you know, difficult thing when you're a startup is finding

coworkers and partners that you may or may not have

known at all. But you need a skill, and

you you need to find somebody that you can rely on.

And took me 6 or 8 months to find my current partner,

and she's spectacular and is a 50% owner of the business

with me. Yeah. That I think that brings up a

a good point and, something that maybe I always struggle with.

As far as I've run my business, I've mostly just been by myself.

I've hired a couple, like, contracting work and stuff like that, but

mostly been by myself. Have you found it difficult to, like,

ask things from other people and to kinda let go of some of the control

and to trust them in doing what, you know, they say they're gonna do and

that sort of thing. How how's that been for you? Well, with with my

partner specifically, it's a skill that I don't have.

Okay? Mhmm. I I am not a marketing guy at all. So

without I mean, I knew that this business would go nowhere if we

didn't have somebody that figure out how do we go to

market. So so knowing your own

limits, you know, is is an important part of the

the startup process, and then finding people

to help you achieve those goals is is critical. One of the things I

always say as a startup leader is, you know, I

get to do whatever it is. I get to do it first,

but I try to figure out the process, document it, and

then as quickly as possible, hand it off to the next person

to do every day. And then I go on to the next

problem and try to solve that, come up with a solution, and

then keep handing it off. So I don't I I have not historically had

a problem hiring people and giving it off to other people,

and they've always been able to take my processes and improve them.

So I think that there's a lot of value in other

purpose. And I think a lot of startups,

maybe their their biggest problem is that they're not willing to give up

either some ownership or or some, you know, control of

the day to day business. So they're always stifled and

limited in their growth. That doesn't mean they can't have a nice little business by

themselves and and other people are you by yourself.

But the opportunity to to meet on a product that you're

passionate about with other people and get their input and their

insights into process or design ideas, I mean,

that's, you know, those are moments to cherish

if you get that opportunity. Mhmm. Yeah. That's awesome. I I really like the

way you described that. And I think it's a skill too to be able to

identify, you know, like you said, like, marketing, that's not me. You

know, I I can't I don't know how to how to do that. But that

that in and of itself, I think, is a skill because especially, like, with me

and I maybe I have a tendency to teach myself

things, and I always think, like, oh, marketing. I could just learn that from the

Internet. Right? And and you could say the same thing, but it's definitely

an art for for sure. And I think recognizing that you're not good at it

is is a big step. And then I also like the idea of,

like, being able to collaborate with people and both be passionate about

something and have that be more impactful or drive the

the vision further than you could have ever dreamed. So I really like that idea

and and the way that you described that as well. So for

somebody who maybe is working one of those corporate jobs

and, you know, has ideas of of

starting off their own business or or doing something more creative. Would you have any

advice for somebody who, like, would wanna take a risk? Because we talked about, like,

you know, the risk versus the stability and and that sort of thing. You know,

when I left investment banking, I was very optimistic

that the next thing would be as successful as being an

investment banker. It's a very big

risk going out on your own. Okay? I mean, I've

I've muddled through, but there's no way that I

if if financial stability is what you want

and what drives you, startups are very

follows. And good ideas may not

always just drive success. So I'm I'm

hesitant to tell people to jump out and do it. If your

life is more about what you're doing versus what you're getting paid to

do, then being a startup is is

great fun and and can be financially rewarding if if

it takes off. You know, there are a lot of startups these days that

are, you know, technology based

where the scalability is, you know, 0 to

a1000000000 very quickly. But many of the

startups that most of us fall into are gonna

be, you know if we did a 100 of these boxes a

year, that would be a huge home run for us.

So do you have any, mentors that you've ever worked with or

people that you've looked up to or, you know, certain people like that in your

life? You know, it's been probably 20 years that I've

been kind of working either as a, you know, a leader of a

startup or by myself. So I haven't had a lot of

mentors, which is probably something that's that's been,

lacking. One of the startups we had, a CEO that

was great vision, great motivational skills, and a

and a real delight to be around. That only lasted 2 years,

so he wasn't a mentor for long, but a very

motivating guy. Otherwise, you know, the the

real joy that I've had to work with are trades

guys or or plant operators. I owned a

small company down in, Texas where we had a

huge CNC, you know, 100, you know, $1,000,000 piece of

equipment. It was a 100 feet long and, you know, ran on

railroad tracks. And, you know, I hired a guy

that had no skills, no education, no

background. And within a month, he had set up the machine

and was running it and maintaining it beautifully

and, you know, cared for it as if it was his baby.

So people that do everything they can to do their job

well, and are really dedicated no matter what that

job is, you know, if they're out sweeping the floor, but they

do a really good job at it, you know, that's that's what I

really love to see and and work with those kind of guys. And, you

know, cleaning up a facility is just as important as

running it well or making the product. Every

job is critical. So to have to be able to

find people that do whatever that job is and

really take it to heart, you know, is a sheer you know, it's lots

of joy to see that happening every day, especially at a company that you may

have helped create. And to create those kind of opportunities

for people is is really fun.

Yeah. That's something I think, I guess, a lot about these days. I think

for a while, I thought I just wanted to be out on my own and

do everything myself so I didn't have to, like, you know, deal with other people

and and personalities and that sort of thing. But I'm quickly realizing

that that's not really what what's gonna bring you the most joy, at least for

me. So how do you how do you find those sorts of people? Like, talking

about, you know, getting employees and having people work for you, how do you find

those people that have that certain, you know, drive or or

sparkle in their eye or or whatever it is? Well, it's it's

it's been 6 years since I've employed anyone, so it's been a

while. I think giving people a chance has

been my best methodology for for hiring

people. I I rarely like to hire somebody that's kind of

done it, and they're bringing theirs, you know, their

practiced skills to my, employee.

I'd much rather give it to somebody that's hungry and and maybe

hasn't figured it out yet, but has the drive and the

and the just you know, find people that wanna learn how to do it.

And, again, that doesn't mean that it's always the the the smartest

guy in the world. You know, it's it's more of the people that just

really have it somewhere in their heart that they wanna kinda act as an

owner even if they're not or or really grab their job.

And they were sweeping the floor, but now they figured out a way to do

it twice as fast with a a new machine or what whatever

whatever the job is, and have the willingness to

work hard and and really dedicate themselves. Giving

people a chance, helping them learn

their job, providing the tools and the,

training to do it. Most people fail because their

managers are failing them, not because they

are inherently bad at what they're doing.

It's that you gotta design the company to for success,

help people achieve whatever it is you wanna do

versus, you know, some vision of this is how it should run,

but those people aren't helping me. You know? You've designed the wrong

organization usually, not that you found the wrong

people. Most people are are at least reasonably,

positively intended to come to work every day

and and do something good. And and then the other thing is when you

find the wrong people, quickly let them know that they're not

gonna work out and wish them best of luck in their next

endeavor. Some people are not right for the jobs you hire them into. I mean,

most to be honest, most people aren't, But that's not

typically because they're bad people or something like that. It's just not the job that

they're created to do. Yeah. I think that's

really good advice. And and even just from, like, the other perspective, you know, if

I think that's being a good, you know, boss. Like, I most bosses that

I've ever had in corporate did not have that sort of

idea about what the employee should be. It was more so, like, do this thing

that I tell you to do, and then when you're done with it, come tell

me. And I think giving people, like, the freedom, like you were saying, to learn

and to, you know, make mistakes and then overcome those mistakes is a

hugely important part of getting people to want to work for you.

Yeah. And it I mean, there are lots of employees I've had that probably wouldn't

say that I was so so forgiving and so encouraging.

So it doesn't mean that you just clap your hands

every day for your employees, but you need to motivate

them, and sometimes that's not as warm and fuzzy as

everybody wants. But if they're half decent at

what they are trying to do, there's always a way to make them

make it successful. Maybe their compensation isn't the right

number and it needs to go up or down, and then it works fine. There

are lots of ways to make it work. In the end, you do need to

get stuff done, and and sometimes it there

are rules. But I I do think that,

you know, there are lots of big companies today that,

you know, they're failing because the management is leading them in the

wrong direction. And and, you know, I don't have a big successful

company, so maybe I'm leading in the wrong direction. But I'm hoping

to find the right one, and that's part of every day, getting up

and designing the right path or trying to design the right path

and then getting people to help figure it out.

Yeah. No. I think that's I think that's really a good way to think

about it. So, yeah, as we're kinda coming to end of our time here, I

did wanna ask you what's next for Box and and what do you see

in the future and and what do you hope to to accomplish? So we are

very early. We've sold our second unit. We'll be installing that

in 6 or 8 to 10 weeks. It's really been

encouraging to to get all the details, you know, ironed

out so that we can actually move forward and do that. So what

we're really focused on is is the marketing side and how do

we reach people and let them know about what

we're doing and then helping them sign up and move

forward. We really think that the work from home market

is is an exciting addition to

how people could work. You know, we're we're not necessarily

saying you need to never go into an office, so the hybrid work is

there. It's amazing in the northeast

around the metropolitan area of New York. You know, people are spending

2 to 3 to 4 hours a day on trains

and cars and stuff like that. It is totally

nonproductive. And, you know, when you're

working 8 or, you know, even if you're working 10 hours a day,

you know, 2 to 4 hours is a big part of your day. And it's

a you know, I don't know how even if the water cooler is an

incredibly dynamic place for you to

motivate your employees or learn new ideas or whatever,

to come up with 4 2 to 4 hours of productivity around

the water cooler is a lot. One of the things that's been kind

of behind most of my building in the last 10 years has been

energy efficiency. Most people drive their

cars. Most of the time, it's just commuting. And if you can

eliminate that, the tons of carbon dioxide that

you're not putting out there is really very large.

So commuting is a very large part of our impact

on, the environment. So just preventing that and then

bringing dollars home. You know, we now all you know, if

you're working from home, you're buying lunch at home every day

instead of, you know, going into the big city and buying lunch there,

which is a bummer for them. But it's great to have

a community that you kinda see people more often

just because you're, you know, at a restaurant locally or you're at the

grocery store or whatever it is. And, you know,

towns could use a little more infusion of people

and and business. So I think it's a I think it's a very dynamic,

and and I hope it isn't viewed as a kind of

a I go off on my own and I never see anybody kind of a

thing. You know, we had more people doing it. We all could

have lunch with those people locally. Yeah. Yeah.

No. I like I never really thought about it in that way before, but it's

more so bringing the, you know, where you're living community

up versus, like, traveling to somewhere and then finding community. It's

finding community at home. So I like that piece of it. Yeah.

Right. Well, so yeah. Where can, people find more information about Box? We have

a great website at boxx.work,

w o r k, which is a little of an unusual

URL, but hopefully, it'll be, something that you can

find. So we'd love to see you there, and call us anytime.

Our our our direct cell phones are on there. We'll pick up the

phone anytime you call. Awesome, man. I will leave a link to, to your site

in the show notes so people can find it if we're listening to this. And,

Yeah. Thank you so much for your time and and the conversation, and I wish

you guys the best in the future. Well, thanks for asking the questions, and thanks

for giving me your time. Thanks for tuning in and

listening to Working Towards Our Purpose. If you like this

episode, please share it with a friend and don't forget to subscribe

for more episodes.